11 ms·

Wolf Pups That Play Fetch

83 points by Hooke 7y ago

Sharlin 7y ago
It’s interesting that many cats, too, play fetch completely intuitively, no training required.
- djohnston 7y ago
  Interesting, I had never seen that before until I read this comment and went googling!
- Izkata 7y ago
  I don't know if it requires training, but here's a red fox playing fetch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EchdjzFO-7U https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EchdjzFO-7U
- fortran77 7y ago
  My current cats won't, but I've had cats in the past that enjoyed playing fetch.
- bergoid 7y ago
  Beluga whale playing fetch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uMSl28_8Rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uMSl28_8Rw
- arethuza 7y ago
  Burmese cats are famous for playing fetch and behaving a bit like cat shaped dogs.
- nabnob 7y ago
  My cat is weirdly smart and he will play fetch. He's really good at figuring out whatever new "game" I'm trying to play with him. Some more examples of his social intelligence: - He will play tricks on me. He's learned to paw at the patio door to show that he wants to be let outside. If I'm standing outside and he's inside the patio door, he will paw at the door as if he wants to be let out, and then run away as soon as I open the door. He will do this over and over and turn it into a game. - He's VERY vocal and has some understanding of how a conversation works - I talk, then you talk. I only realized this because he hates car rides, and this is the only time he interrupts me. - He's really good at understanding tone and body language, so usually he can figure out what I'm trying to tell him to do, even if it's a new situation using new words. For example, I was outside while he was playing, and a neighbor walked up to say hello. I told him "it's ok, you can go say hi" and he walked up to her and sniffed her hand. It's really weird, I knew cats were intelligent but I had no idea until I got this cat.
SeekingMeaning 7y ago
Non-paywall: http://archive.ph/5OBeO http://archive.ph/5OBeO
- big_chungus 7y ago
  Interesting question here: I can resolve archive.ph just fine, but archive.today doesn't work due to the ongoing issus with Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1). Anyone know why?
  - bmn__ 7y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317
- crmrc114 7y ago
  Trim link if your employer like mine blocks some of the archive sites. https://beta.trimread.com/articles/3236 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/3236
briefcomment 7y ago
I'm going to guess that the "fetch" reflex may have its roots in wolves chasing after bones humans around a campfire may have tossed to sate the wolves' appetites and keep them at bay. Maybe bringing the bones back was a way of "nicely" letting humans know that more bones would be appreciated/required to keep living. You often see wolves circle around humans around a fire in movies and books. Maybe it's a symbiotic relationship like a remora/shark, or even parasitic like an oxpicker/large mammal. *edit - Some people are very liberal with downvotes, especially for lighthearted conjecture that is not obviously wrong or intellectually misleading. Got any better ideas?
- heyitsguay 7y ago
  You're probably being downvoted for telling a just so story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story . It's a particularly pernicious trap when trying to understand behavior and evolution!
  - briefcomment 7y ago
    That makes sense.
    - FriendlyNormie 7y ago
      No, it doesn’t. Your comment was fine. If your comment was a “just-so story” then the first two paragraphs of the linked article are also a “just-so story”. I see no evidence that the scientists were using guaranteed purebreed wolves, if there even is such a thing alive today. During the evolution of dogs, surely wolves in general were constantly having their gene pools contaminated by genes from stray dogs. That could easily explain why some wolf pups would exhibit traces of dog-specific behavior. Oops, and now I’ve just told a “just-so story”. Maybe it’s safer if we turn off our brains and never comment again.
      - briefcomment 7y ago
        I meant it makes sense as a reason for why people are downvoting. I don't think it makes sense as a way of thinking about things. And I certainly won't stop commenting because some people find it disagreeable/distracting.
natmaka 7y ago
Maybe related to "Belyayev's Fox Experiment": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22143748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22143748
philwelch 7y ago
I always figured that the “playing fetch” behavior was just the dog (or wolf, I suppose) figuring out that it gets to chase the thing again if it brings it back to the thrower. If you teach a dog to play fetch, it has no problem instinctively chasing the thing. It’s the bringing it back that has to be trained. But once the dog gives it back, it suddenly learns that it gets to chase the thing again, which is fun and rewarding. Eventually you might be minding your own business but as soon as the dog finds the ball, it will bring it to you. The dog plays fetch because you’re going to throw the ball, not because you already did throw it.
- jhbadger 7y ago
  Yeah. My cat will actually bring the laser pointer to me so that I play that with her. She seems to understand that it is connected somehow to the magic red bug that she likes to chase.
  - interfixus 7y ago
    Same here. One of my cats will do that if given the chance. All of them know where the laser is kept, and order breaks down whenever I touch that drawer.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  Dogs are frequently trained to retrieve game, which is never thrown again for their benefit (though some might be given to them to eat). Your model would say that this is unrelated to playing fetch. But people also train dogs to do all kinds of things. They'll do whatever you want for no other reason than that you want them to do it. (With limits based on the dog's personality and intelligence.) It all ties in. A lot of dogs are specifically bred for retrieving behavior. (See: "golden retrievers", but newfoundlands are bred to retrieve _people_ from the water, too.) A lot of dogs like interacting with their humans. Both of those are sufficient for many dogs to play fetch. A single-factor model where the reason to play fetch is that you like chasing things misses a lot of reality.
  - cjslep 7y ago
timeattack 7y ago
Interestingly, my cat started to bring pieces of her food to me so I can throw it and she can pretend it's live pray she is catching. This behavior emerged suddenly out of nowhere without prior training. I bet many pet owners can share same anecdotal evidence of certain level of social intelligence which, I think, is not widely accepted in scientific community.

83 points by Hooke 7y ago

Sharlin 7y ago

It’s interesting that many cats, too, play fetch completely intuitively, no training required.

djohnston 7y ago
Interesting, I had never seen that before until I read this comment and went googling!
Izkata 7y ago
I don't know if it requires training, but here's a red fox playing fetch: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EchdjzFO-7U https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EchdjzFO-7U
fortran77 7y ago
My current cats won't, but I've had cats in the past that enjoyed playing fetch.
bergoid 7y ago
Beluga whale playing fetch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uMSl28_8Rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uMSl28_8Rw
arethuza 7y ago
Burmese cats are famous for playing fetch and behaving a bit like cat shaped dogs.
nabnob 7y ago
My cat is weirdly smart and he will play fetch. He's really good at figuring out whatever new "game" I'm trying to play with him. Some more examples of his social intelligence: - He will play tricks on me. He's learned to paw at the patio door to show that he wants to be let outside. If I'm standing outside and he's inside the patio door, he will paw at the door as if he wants to be let out, and then run away as soon as I open the door. He will do this over and over and turn it into a game. - He's VERY vocal and has some understanding of how a conversation works - I talk, then you talk. I only realized this because he hates car rides, and this is the only time he interrupts me. - He's really good at understanding tone and body language, so usually he can figure out what I'm trying to tell him to do, even if it's a new situation using new words. For example, I was outside while he was playing, and a neighbor walked up to say hello. I told him "it's ok, you can go say hi" and he walked up to her and sniffed her hand. It's really weird, I knew cats were intelligent but I had no idea until I got this cat.

SeekingMeaning 7y ago

Non-paywall: http://archive.ph/5OBeO http://archive.ph/5OBeO

big_chungus 7y ago
Interesting question here: I can resolve archive.ph just fine, but archive.today doesn't work due to the ongoing issus with Cloudflare DNS (1.1.1.1). Anyone know why?
- bmn__ 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317
crmrc114 7y ago
Trim link if your employer like mine blocks some of the archive sites. https://beta.trimread.com/articles/3236 https://beta.trimread.com/articles/3236

briefcomment 7y ago

I'm going to guess that the "fetch" reflex may have its roots in wolves chasing after bones humans around a campfire may have tossed to sate the wolves' appetites and keep them at bay. Maybe bringing the bones back was a way of "nicely" letting humans know that more bones would be appreciated/required to keep living. You often see wolves circle around humans around a fire in movies and books. Maybe it's a symbiotic relationship like a remora/shark, or even parasitic like an oxpicker/large mammal. *edit - Some people are very liberal with downvotes, especially for lighthearted conjecture that is not obviously wrong or intellectually misleading. Got any better ideas?

heyitsguay 7y ago
You're probably being downvoted for telling a just so story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story . It's a particularly pernicious trap when trying to understand behavior and evolution!
- briefcomment 7y ago
  That makes sense.
  - FriendlyNormie 7y ago
    No, it doesn’t. Your comment was fine. If your comment was a “just-so story” then the first two paragraphs of the linked article are also a “just-so story”. I see no evidence that the scientists were using guaranteed purebreed wolves, if there even is such a thing alive today. During the evolution of dogs, surely wolves in general were constantly having their gene pools contaminated by genes from stray dogs. That could easily explain why some wolf pups would exhibit traces of dog-specific behavior. Oops, and now I’ve just told a “just-so story”. Maybe it’s safer if we turn off our brains and never comment again.
    - briefcomment 7y ago
      I meant it makes sense as a reason for why people are downvoting. I don't think it makes sense as a way of thinking about things. And I certainly won't stop commenting because some people find it disagreeable/distracting.

natmaka 7y ago

Maybe related to "Belyayev's Fox Experiment": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22143748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22143748

philwelch 7y ago

I always figured that the “playing fetch” behavior was just the dog (or wolf, I suppose) figuring out that it gets to chase the thing again if it brings it back to the thrower. If you teach a dog to play fetch, it has no problem instinctively chasing the thing. It’s the bringing it back that has to be trained. But once the dog gives it back, it suddenly learns that it gets to chase the thing again, which is fun and rewarding. Eventually you might be minding your own business but as soon as the dog finds the ball, it will bring it to you. The dog plays fetch because you’re going to throw the ball, not because you already did throw it.

jhbadger 7y ago
Yeah. My cat will actually bring the laser pointer to me so that I play that with her. She seems to understand that it is connected somehow to the magic red bug that she likes to chase.
- interfixus 7y ago
  Same here. One of my cats will do that if given the chance. All of them know where the laser is kept, and order breaks down whenever I touch that drawer.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
Dogs are frequently trained to retrieve game, which is never thrown again for their benefit (though some might be given to them to eat). Your model would say that this is unrelated to playing fetch. But people also train dogs to do all kinds of things. They'll do whatever you want for no other reason than that you want them to do it. (With limits based on the dog's personality and intelligence.) It all ties in. A lot of dogs are specifically bred for retrieving behavior. (See: "golden retrievers", but newfoundlands are bred to retrieve _people_ from the water, too.) A lot of dogs like interacting with their humans. Both of those are sufficient for many dogs to play fetch. A single-factor model where the reason to play fetch is that you like chasing things misses a lot of reality.
- cjslep 7y ago

timeattack 7y ago

Interestingly, my cat started to bring pieces of her food to me so I can throw it and she can pretend it's live pray she is catching. This behavior emerged suddenly out of nowhere without prior training. I bet many pet owners can share same anecdotal evidence of certain level of social intelligence which, I think, is not widely accepted in scientific community.