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While we’re talking history: I’ve heard that the system of laws codified under Justinian in the Byzantine empire ended up forming the basis for most Western law

While we’re talking history: I’ve heard that the system of laws codified under Justinian in the Byzantine empire ended up forming the basis for most Western law systems to this day. My math is probably off here, but is the current Turkish court system a continuous descendant from that system?

rolleiflex 7y ago
That's why I left it separate under an asterisk. Not an expert, but I think what happened is that Emperor Justinian's code remained the base for the Christian law within the Empire until the modernisation, which was pretty much a merge of that tradition with updates pulled from French third republic with the exception of civil law, which was merged in from Switzerland instead. Up until 1851 the largest minority in the Empire were Muslims at 45% of the population, followed by Christians at 35%. You could argue that it's an unbroken lineage because 35% of the population still followed Roman law which was still valid and in full force, or you could argue that the most populous minority didn't, therefore a broken lineage. In either case, the reality is more shades of grey, of course: all jurisdictions of accepted law evolved side by side with some crosstalk over time. Ultimately though, Turkey terminated the application of muslim law, removed it entirely from its code and completely switched to a western code after World War I, roughly coincident with the collapse of the Empire and the foundation of the current, modern Republic. It's subject to both European Court of Justice, and the European Court of Human Rights as the ultimate courts of appeal, both of which, I believe, have some presiding Turkish judges. (My knowledge in this field is very superficial — if someone knows better, please feel free to correct!)
- realityking 7y ago
  Turkey is not subject to the European Court of Justice as that’s an EU institution and Turkey is not a member.
  - rolleiflex 7y ago
    My apologies, you are right. There’s even a case from a few years ago where EUCJ decided that it lacks jurisdiction.
AnthonyWnC 7y ago
Not sure about the current Turkish system but the precursor to Turkey; the Ottoman Empire was a Islamic caliphate so they probably didn't adopt the same laws as Western system but it'd be still pretty accurate to say that the Byzantine empire formed some basis of Western laws (at least as a lineage of the Roman empire). Also as you probably know, Istanbul used to be called Constantinople.

rolleiflex 7y ago

That's why I left it separate under an asterisk. Not an expert, but I think what happened is that Emperor Justinian's code remained the base for the Christian law within the Empire until the modernisation, which was pretty much a merge of that tradition with updates pulled from French third republic with the exception of civil law, which was merged in from Switzerland instead. Up until 1851 the largest minority in the Empire were Muslims at 45% of the population, followed by Christians at 35%. You could argue that it's an unbroken lineage because 35% of the population still followed Roman law which was still valid and in full force, or you could argue that the most populous minority didn't, therefore a broken lineage. In either case, the reality is more shades of grey, of course: all jurisdictions of accepted law evolved side by side with some crosstalk over time. Ultimately though, Turkey terminated the application of muslim law, removed it entirely from its code and completely switched to a western code after World War I, roughly coincident with the collapse of the Empire and the foundation of the current, modern Republic. It's subject to both European Court of Justice, and the European Court of Human Rights as the ultimate courts of appeal, both of which, I believe, have some presiding Turkish judges. (My knowledge in this field is very superficial — if someone knows better, please feel free to correct!)

realityking 7y ago
Turkey is not subject to the European Court of Justice as that’s an EU institution and Turkey is not a member.
- rolleiflex 7y ago
  My apologies, you are right. There’s even a case from a few years ago where EUCJ decided that it lacks jurisdiction.

AnthonyWnC 7y ago

Not sure about the current Turkish system but the precursor to Turkey; the Ottoman Empire was a Islamic caliphate so they probably didn't adopt the same laws as Western system but it'd be still pretty accurate to say that the Byzantine empire formed some basis of Western laws (at least as a lineage of the Roman empire). Also as you probably know, Istanbul used to be called Constantinople.