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I'll save everybody the trouble: Curmudgeon likes his 50 year old speaker more than that new fangled tech stuff. Then rants about tech being in our lives too m

I'll save everybody the trouble: Curmudgeon likes his 50 year old speaker more than that new fangled tech stuff. Then rants about tech being in our lives too much. (I could only skim it as so boring and repetitive - already read this story too 1000 times). Smart tech has issues around support, but it is so damn useful. I thought little of it until I started moving everything to it. It also has a network effect - the more you add the more useful it gets. When I walk away from my building my the thermostat goes down, door deadbolts, lights go down, music and TV all go off etc. Pry it from my cold dead hands.

fzeroracer 7y ago
>It also has a network effect - the more you add the more useful This kind of seems like saying 'the more microservices you add, the more useful it gets' which only works up to the point where services don't encounter any integration issues. What happens when your thermometer starts sending messages that cause your door to unlock when the temperature gets too high? Or if your TV ends up shutting down because of malformed packets being sent across your home network? IoT is an integration nightmare that only gets worse as stuff fades out or ends up receiving no more support from the manufacturer. Those items you bought from 50 years ago will still work just fine even if the company goes under. But the same can't be said for modern technology we're filling our homes with. And that's even without talking about the privacy issues. I'll take dumb items that I can make smart over smart items I can not make dumb any day of the week.
- rexer 7y ago
  That's a lot of speculation and FUD. There's nothing inherent about IoT that requires it to be reliant on remote services.
  - stallmanite 7y ago
    Isn’t that academic until IoT devices being tethered to cloud services stops being the dominant practice?
    - vineyardmike 7y ago
      There are plenty of devices where this is the case. For example, the ikea devices. Generally, most HomeKit devices are LAN or Bluetooth based, and theoretical should work without needing to phone home. (Some might stop if they can’t, but that’s an implementation issue, and i haven’t experienced it yet)
pxue 7y ago
the issue, is what happens when your smart door lock decided that you need to upgrade to v2 of its hardware for it to get the next set of software upgrades? what happens when it decides that it won't connect with next version of iOS/Android unless you upgrade?
- ironmagma 7y ago
  This could have been largely mitigated if Sonos speakers just had an AUX port like any other speaker. Instead, hubris took over and led to a shitstorm.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    My Sonos play:5 has an AUX port.
    - ironmagma 7y ago
      Interesting, I wasn’t aware. Thanks!
    - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
      But that's more the exception than the rule. My 1 sl's do not have one.
      - BurningFrog 7y ago
        It's from 2013. Much has probably changed since.
- ce4 7y ago
  They really should make the IoT part a module thats easily upgradable. I2S + 5V power is all thats technically needed. Maybe i2c ontop, to make the speaker model autodiscoverable and volume adjustable. But again offering such upgrade modules will open Sonos tech for 3rd party and enable eg. highend manufacturers to cater to Sonos customers or hobbyists to cheaply build Sonos speakers.
lowbloodsugar 7y ago
I think the take-away is that speaker technology is largely unchanged from the 70s. Sure, magnets are better, digital processing is better, and for sure, online services are better. But don't try to stuff all that into one box, for one fixed price. I've got 90s speakers, with a $100 hifi-berry, and Roon, and they sound way better than Sonos. Microservices vs Monoliths. Don't put speaker, amplifiers, processor and wifi all in one box. Put the slow-changing stuff (speakers, amplifier) over here and pay once for it. Put the fast-changing stuff (pandora! spotify! Tidal!) over here, and pay a subscription for it. I pay for Tidal and Roon. Tidal for content, Roon for updating software as iOS updates, linux updates, and SPDIF drivers need updating. As long as Roon supports SPDIF, I'm good.
- jnordwick 7y ago
  you have a computer I assume, the greatest "monolith" ever invented
  - bpfrh 7y ago
    Not really, you can change your videocard, your processor, the connections(mainboard) your periphery etc...
    - jnordwick 7y ago
      most systems are laptops, tablets, and phones now and none of that applies. but in application it does about everything, and most jobs it does haven't changed much. HN is generally filled with other tech people who have turned luddite in their old age.
- madengr 7y ago
  That’s why I have home built speakers and tube amplifiers hooked to an streaming device. The speakers and amp will be good 50 years from now. The streaming device will have long been in the dumpster.
- NBorlaug 7y ago
  Spot on take. Having a completely self-contained smart device has advantages in narrow cases, like portability. Otherwise, if you're doing home audio, there's no good reason to have in all in one box. Make the system modular and thus flexibily upgradable.
redisman 7y ago
Sounds more somewhat convenient than damn useful. For me adding a handful more companies to the pool of tracking my every move doesn't seem like a great trade-off for the experience of not having to turn off the lights. Also what happens when you come home and sketchy IoT startup X has gone bankrupt/their DB crashed and your deadbolt servers are down.
- jnordwick 7y ago
  what happens if your car battery decides to stop working? i'll take my horse anyday. yawn. all luddites make similar arguments
  - dasil003 7y ago
    The convenience differential of car vs horse is fundamentally different from most smart home stuff, to say nothing of security, reliability and planned obsolescence issues presented by many of these devices as currently designed.
    - jnordwick 7y ago
      Now, but not when it was invented and first came out. When the car was invented it was barely more useful than a horse and for many jobs horses were still used. Give all the home automaton time and I guarantee it fill far pass what it does now. Not a single argument you have is unique in either product or time. EVERYTHING you say was said of cars or many other technologies before this. Horses were way more reliable, parts were specially made (talk about lock in), and there was obsolescence there too. It is absurd to think "but this time its different" and you somehow have hit some good enough level of technology in this area.
      - monadgonad 7y ago
        You're mistaking people saying they don't want smart home devices now for them saying that they'll never work ever. When cars were new, horses were indeed better for most people.
clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
True but I'm also sick of buying things from an e-waste perspective. Now my thermostats, locks, faucets, bathroom mirrors, lightbulbs, etc can be outdated or vulnerable and need replacing? Yeah it's very easy to just give in but the amount of things we toss in the trash that's perfectly fine but simply no longer supported is obscene, and getting worse by the day. I can't bring myself to give in.
mrobins 7y ago
HN isn’t a community of luddites and articles like this get tons of people up in arms almost everyday. Same is true at most other tech sites. The point is that bad faith actions (forced obsolescence, surveillance, no commitment to security, weak sharing of protocols etc.) are holding back smart home and IoT significantly. This technology has so much potential and is not THAT new but adoption is still hit or miss. It’s a bad sign that so many self described techies are comfortably waiting on the sideline or worse, afraid to have some of these devices in their homes. I agree that smart tech is beyond useful but when the big IoT players ignore detractors and repeat the same mistakes over and over again it’s just flushing potential (and value) down the toilet. It would be great to see industry take complaints to heart and begin to build trust in their ecosystems.

fzeroracer 7y ago

>It also has a network effect - the more you add the more useful This kind of seems like saying 'the more microservices you add, the more useful it gets' which only works up to the point where services don't encounter any integration issues. What happens when your thermometer starts sending messages that cause your door to unlock when the temperature gets too high? Or if your TV ends up shutting down because of malformed packets being sent across your home network? IoT is an integration nightmare that only gets worse as stuff fades out or ends up receiving no more support from the manufacturer. Those items you bought from 50 years ago will still work just fine even if the company goes under. But the same can't be said for modern technology we're filling our homes with. And that's even without talking about the privacy issues. I'll take dumb items that I can make smart over smart items I can not make dumb any day of the week.

rexer 7y ago
That's a lot of speculation and FUD. There's nothing inherent about IoT that requires it to be reliant on remote services.
- stallmanite 7y ago
  Isn’t that academic until IoT devices being tethered to cloud services stops being the dominant practice?
  - vineyardmike 7y ago
    There are plenty of devices where this is the case. For example, the ikea devices. Generally, most HomeKit devices are LAN or Bluetooth based, and theoretical should work without needing to phone home. (Some might stop if they can’t, but that’s an implementation issue, and i haven’t experienced it yet)

pxue 7y ago

the issue, is what happens when your smart door lock decided that you need to upgrade to v2 of its hardware for it to get the next set of software upgrades? what happens when it decides that it won't connect with next version of iOS/Android unless you upgrade?

ironmagma 7y ago
This could have been largely mitigated if Sonos speakers just had an AUX port like any other speaker. Instead, hubris took over and led to a shitstorm.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  My Sonos play:5 has an AUX port.
  - ironmagma 7y ago
    Interesting, I wasn’t aware. Thanks!
  - ImprovedSilence 7y ago
    But that's more the exception than the rule. My 1 sl's do not have one.
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      It's from 2013. Much has probably changed since.
ce4 7y ago
They really should make the IoT part a module thats easily upgradable. I2S + 5V power is all thats technically needed. Maybe i2c ontop, to make the speaker model autodiscoverable and volume adjustable. But again offering such upgrade modules will open Sonos tech for 3rd party and enable eg. highend manufacturers to cater to Sonos customers or hobbyists to cheaply build Sonos speakers.

lowbloodsugar 7y ago

I think the take-away is that speaker technology is largely unchanged from the 70s. Sure, magnets are better, digital processing is better, and for sure, online services are better. But don't try to stuff all that into one box, for one fixed price. I've got 90s speakers, with a $100 hifi-berry, and Roon, and they sound way better than Sonos. Microservices vs Monoliths. Don't put speaker, amplifiers, processor and wifi all in one box. Put the slow-changing stuff (speakers, amplifier) over here and pay once for it. Put the fast-changing stuff (pandora! spotify! Tidal!) over here, and pay a subscription for it. I pay for Tidal and Roon. Tidal for content, Roon for updating software as iOS updates, linux updates, and SPDIF drivers need updating. As long as Roon supports SPDIF, I'm good.

jnordwick 7y ago
you have a computer I assume, the greatest "monolith" ever invented
- bpfrh 7y ago
  Not really, you can change your videocard, your processor, the connections(mainboard) your periphery etc...
  - jnordwick 7y ago
    most systems are laptops, tablets, and phones now and none of that applies. but in application it does about everything, and most jobs it does haven't changed much. HN is generally filled with other tech people who have turned luddite in their old age.
madengr 7y ago
That’s why I have home built speakers and tube amplifiers hooked to an streaming device. The speakers and amp will be good 50 years from now. The streaming device will have long been in the dumpster.
NBorlaug 7y ago
Spot on take. Having a completely self-contained smart device has advantages in narrow cases, like portability. Otherwise, if you're doing home audio, there's no good reason to have in all in one box. Make the system modular and thus flexibily upgradable.

redisman 7y ago

Sounds more somewhat convenient than damn useful. For me adding a handful more companies to the pool of tracking my every move doesn't seem like a great trade-off for the experience of not having to turn off the lights. Also what happens when you come home and sketchy IoT startup X has gone bankrupt/their DB crashed and your deadbolt servers are down.

jnordwick 7y ago
what happens if your car battery decides to stop working? i'll take my horse anyday. yawn. all luddites make similar arguments
- dasil003 7y ago
  The convenience differential of car vs horse is fundamentally different from most smart home stuff, to say nothing of security, reliability and planned obsolescence issues presented by many of these devices as currently designed.
  - jnordwick 7y ago
    Now, but not when it was invented and first came out. When the car was invented it was barely more useful than a horse and for many jobs horses were still used. Give all the home automaton time and I guarantee it fill far pass what it does now. Not a single argument you have is unique in either product or time. EVERYTHING you say was said of cars or many other technologies before this. Horses were way more reliable, parts were specially made (talk about lock in), and there was obsolescence there too. It is absurd to think "but this time its different" and you somehow have hit some good enough level of technology in this area.
    - monadgonad 7y ago
      You're mistaking people saying they don't want smart home devices now for them saying that they'll never work ever. When cars were new, horses were indeed better for most people.

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago

True but I'm also sick of buying things from an e-waste perspective. Now my thermostats, locks, faucets, bathroom mirrors, lightbulbs, etc can be outdated or vulnerable and need replacing? Yeah it's very easy to just give in but the amount of things we toss in the trash that's perfectly fine but simply no longer supported is obscene, and getting worse by the day. I can't bring myself to give in.

mrobins 7y ago

HN isn’t a community of luddites and articles like this get tons of people up in arms almost everyday. Same is true at most other tech sites. The point is that bad faith actions (forced obsolescence, surveillance, no commitment to security, weak sharing of protocols etc.) are holding back smart home and IoT significantly. This technology has so much potential and is not THAT new but adoption is still hit or miss. It’s a bad sign that so many self described techies are comfortably waiting on the sideline or worse, afraid to have some of these devices in their homes. I agree that smart tech is beyond useful but when the big IoT players ignore detractors and repeat the same mistakes over and over again it’s just flushing potential (and value) down the toilet. It would be great to see industry take complaints to heart and begin to build trust in their ecosystems.