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It’s in almost all chain lubes for bikes also. There is one brand I found called Green Oil that doesn’t use it, but it takes a week or so to ship from the UK an

It’s in almost all chain lubes for bikes also. There is one brand I found called Green Oil that doesn’t use it, but it takes a week or so to ship from the UK and they only make a wet lube. Not thrilled with using a wet lube year round, but still much better than having Teflon dust in my apartment.

unicornporn 7y ago
> There is one brand I found called Green Oil that doesn’t use it, but it takes a week or so to ship from the UK and they only make a wet lube. It's on one of my bikes now. Not super winter friendly (wax style), but works. Their grease is just as good as the hazardous crap out there. There's another eco brand that sells lube too, can't find their name. Muc-Off wet and drylubes says "biodegradable".
hinkley 7y ago
A million years ago Phil Wood's Tenacious Oil was the go-to for the all-weather bikers I knew. They are still in business. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/1413/files/SDS-PHIL_TENACIOUS_OIL.pdf?335 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/1413/files/SDS-PHIL_T... (Is everyone publishing these now? Is that a California law?)
nate_meurer 7y ago
No, lubricants such as Krytox and the various spray and wet machine lubes used for bikes and such contain only polymerized fluoropolymers such as PTFE (trade name Teflon). PTFE has a long established safety record, and is completely different from the unpolymerized PFCs that are showing up in ground water and in people's blood. Green Oil is fear mongering. Their website calls PTFE "carcinogenic". This is a lie. The manufacture of PTFE is nasty business, no doubt, but the finished product is safe. Safe enough that it has been widely used in medical implants for the past 50 years.
- serf 7y ago
  >PTFE has a long established safety record, and is completely different from the unpolymerized PFCs that are showing up in ground water and in people's blood. Teflon is mentioned in the article as a PFAS based chemical that has had legal trouble due to health hazards in the past.. "A just-released film, Dark Waters, stars Mark Ruffalo as an intrepid lawyer battling DuPont in the early 2000s after the chemical giant began making a PFAS-based product, Teflon, at its factory in Parkersburg, West Virginia, where chronic illness and untimely deaths spiked among nearby residents. Several states, New York and Ohio among them, have filed lawsuits that seek compensation for health problems caused by drinking water polluted by PFAS. DuPont and 3M are frequently defendants in these suits."
  - nate_meurer 7y ago
    The difference is between polymers such as PTFE and PVDF, and the feedstock monomers used to make them. They are completely different materials. PTFE is inert and immortal. It's dead to the world. You can scrape the non-stick coatings off of all your pans and eat it, and there will be no detectable fluorinated chemicals in your blood. PTFE is widely used for medical implants, and has been for over 50 years. Its track record is well established. The chemicals discussed in the article and in the movie you mention are the feedstocks used to make the polymers, and the surfactants used to form coatings. Those chemicals -- referred to collectively as PFAS -- might be a big fucking problem. They are also inert in a chemical sense, but they're monomeric so they live their whole lives as single molecules, free to pass through biological tissues, where they apparently cause problems. PTFE has no such freedom at any scale; even the finest PTFE dust cannot be absorbed in your gut, and evidence of respiratory hazard of PTFE is pretty much nil until it's burnt, in which case the problem isn't the PTFE but rather the pyrolysis products. PTFE and PFAS... completely different materials with completely different chemical, biological, and environmental behaviors.
    - FooHentai 7y ago
      >You can scrape the non-stick coatings off of all your pans and eat it, and there will be no detectable fluorinated chemicals in your blood. PTFE is widely used for medical implants, and has been for over 50 years. Its track record is well established. You fail to mention it's track record for straight up killing birds if you overheat it. Which, to be clear, we're talking about cookware. The odds of it getting left too long on the heat once in a while are very high. It will kill your pet bird in seconds. Damage to humans? Unclear.
ip26 7y ago
My God, I had no idea it was in so many places.

unicornporn 7y ago

> There is one brand I found called Green Oil that doesn’t use it, but it takes a week or so to ship from the UK and they only make a wet lube. It's on one of my bikes now. Not super winter friendly (wax style), but works. Their grease is just as good as the hazardous crap out there. There's another eco brand that sells lube too, can't find their name. Muc-Off wet and drylubes says "biodegradable".

hinkley 7y ago

A million years ago Phil Wood's Tenacious Oil was the go-to for the all-weather bikers I knew. They are still in business. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/1413/files/SDS-PHIL_TENACIOUS_OIL.pdf?335 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0378/1413/files/SDS-PHIL_T... (Is everyone publishing these now? Is that a California law?)

nate_meurer 7y ago

No, lubricants such as Krytox and the various spray and wet machine lubes used for bikes and such contain only polymerized fluoropolymers such as PTFE (trade name Teflon). PTFE has a long established safety record, and is completely different from the unpolymerized PFCs that are showing up in ground water and in people's blood. Green Oil is fear mongering. Their website calls PTFE "carcinogenic". This is a lie. The manufacture of PTFE is nasty business, no doubt, but the finished product is safe. Safe enough that it has been widely used in medical implants for the past 50 years.

serf 7y ago
>PTFE has a long established safety record, and is completely different from the unpolymerized PFCs that are showing up in ground water and in people's blood. Teflon is mentioned in the article as a PFAS based chemical that has had legal trouble due to health hazards in the past.. "A just-released film, Dark Waters, stars Mark Ruffalo as an intrepid lawyer battling DuPont in the early 2000s after the chemical giant began making a PFAS-based product, Teflon, at its factory in Parkersburg, West Virginia, where chronic illness and untimely deaths spiked among nearby residents. Several states, New York and Ohio among them, have filed lawsuits that seek compensation for health problems caused by drinking water polluted by PFAS. DuPont and 3M are frequently defendants in these suits."
- nate_meurer 7y ago
  The difference is between polymers such as PTFE and PVDF, and the feedstock monomers used to make them. They are completely different materials. PTFE is inert and immortal. It's dead to the world. You can scrape the non-stick coatings off of all your pans and eat it, and there will be no detectable fluorinated chemicals in your blood. PTFE is widely used for medical implants, and has been for over 50 years. Its track record is well established. The chemicals discussed in the article and in the movie you mention are the feedstocks used to make the polymers, and the surfactants used to form coatings. Those chemicals -- referred to collectively as PFAS -- might be a big fucking problem. They are also inert in a chemical sense, but they're monomeric so they live their whole lives as single molecules, free to pass through biological tissues, where they apparently cause problems. PTFE has no such freedom at any scale; even the finest PTFE dust cannot be absorbed in your gut, and evidence of respiratory hazard of PTFE is pretty much nil until it's burnt, in which case the problem isn't the PTFE but rather the pyrolysis products. PTFE and PFAS... completely different materials with completely different chemical, biological, and environmental behaviors.
  - FooHentai 7y ago
    >You can scrape the non-stick coatings off of all your pans and eat it, and there will be no detectable fluorinated chemicals in your blood. PTFE is widely used for medical implants, and has been for over 50 years. Its track record is well established. You fail to mention it's track record for straight up killing birds if you overheat it. Which, to be clear, we're talking about cookware. The odds of it getting left too long on the heat once in a while are very high. It will kill your pet bird in seconds. Damage to humans? Unclear.

ip26 7y ago

My God, I had no idea it was in so many places.