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You probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of Teflon (although IMO you probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of PS either heh)

by swiley 7y ago

kube-system 7y ago
PTFE is non-toxic. Health concerns are about production byproducts and thermal decomposition.
nate_meurer 7y ago
Teflon is entirely different from the PFAS chemicals that the article is talking about. There is no evidence that fluoropolymers like PTFE are a health risk. PTFE and PVDF in particular have been widely used for over 50 years in applications that bring us into intimate contact with them on a daily basis, like cookware and medical implants. They have been heavily studied, and have never been shown to be a risk to human health in any way, so long as they aren't burned.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  > so long as they aren't burned That is one big caveat, Teflon is in cookware, under direct flames, is there more precise info on what being "burned" actually means temperature-wise in Celsius?
  - nate_meurer 7y ago
    Depends on the specific coating, but even the cheapest non-stick cookware is good for 200 deg C. Higher quality coatings are guaranteed for pretty darned high temperatures. For example, Calphalon guarantees their top-end non-stick up to 260 deg C. I am personally a total baby about the few non-stick pieces I own. The only things they cook are eggs, and I don't let anyone else use them. But that's just because I'm precious about their condition, not because I fear fumes. As I said in an other comment downthread: > PTFE does emit some uniquely nasty chemicals when overheated, but in mercifully small quantities, and the effects seem to be temporary. If you read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. Considering that there are millions of amateur cooks out there abusing non-stick pans every day since the 1960's, I'd say that's a pretty fucking good track record.
    - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
      Those are all valid points but a butane flame can go from anywhere between 400°C to 1000°C. To my knowledge no manufacturer has ever disclaimed that their product should be used below 200°C or else fluorinated polymer fumes are released into your kitchen. Downplaying the health impact of those fumes is distracting from the manufacturers' omission. Also we shouldn't defend this with the safety of PTFE in implants, this is misleading because they are completely inert at body temperatures it does not help any discussion regarding the safety a pervasive cookware.
      - nate_meurer 7y ago
        Nobody is downplaying the health impact of overheated non-stick cookware. There just doesn't seem to be much of an impact. Think about this for just a minute. Millions of idiots crank the heat on their cheapo non-stick pans every day. I know people who sear steaks in their nonstick for fucks sake. This has been happening since the 1960's. If there was a significant hazard in this activity, don't you think someone would be able to find it? The fact that cookware makers aren't overly concerned with temperature warnings should tell you something about the health risk here. There is little liability risk to them because apparently there is no demonstrable health risk. At the risk of repeating myself endlessly: > read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. If you can find any evidence of negative health impacts from nonstick cookware, there are thousands of ambulance-chasing personal injury lawyers who would love to see your work.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        The pans I recently bought came with warning about proper temperature ranges. FWIW, William-Sonoma says theirs do too: https://blog.williams-sonoma.com/is-nonstick-safe/ https://blog.williams-sonoma.com/is-nonstick-safe/ I’d bet most people don’t read the directions for their pan, and if they do, they’re probably not measuring the temperature of their pan during use. They’re probably just trying not to burn their butter or smoke their oil, which happens around 200c anyway. And you might have another reason to worry about that food fried at 200c+: many foods cooked at high temperatures themselves form carcinogenic substances.

You probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of Teflon (although IMO you probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of PS either heh)

by swiley 7y ago

You probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of Teflon (although IMO you probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of PS either heh)

kube-system 7y ago

PTFE is non-toxic. Health concerns are about production byproducts and thermal decomposition.

nate_meurer 7y ago

Teflon is entirely different from the PFAS chemicals that the article is talking about. There is no evidence that fluoropolymers like PTFE are a health risk. PTFE and PVDF in particular have been widely used for over 50 years in applications that bring us into intimate contact with them on a daily basis, like cookware and medical implants. They have been heavily studied, and have never been shown to be a risk to human health in any way, so long as they aren't burned.

DoingIsLearning 7y ago
> so long as they aren't burned That is one big caveat, Teflon is in cookware, under direct flames, is there more precise info on what being "burned" actually means temperature-wise in Celsius?
- nate_meurer 7y ago
  Depends on the specific coating, but even the cheapest non-stick cookware is good for 200 deg C. Higher quality coatings are guaranteed for pretty darned high temperatures. For example, Calphalon guarantees their top-end non-stick up to 260 deg C. I am personally a total baby about the few non-stick pieces I own. The only things they cook are eggs, and I don't let anyone else use them. But that's just because I'm precious about their condition, not because I fear fumes. As I said in an other comment downthread: > PTFE does emit some uniquely nasty chemicals when overheated, but in mercifully small quantities, and the effects seem to be temporary. If you read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. Considering that there are millions of amateur cooks out there abusing non-stick pans every day since the 1960's, I'd say that's a pretty fucking good track record.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    Those are all valid points but a butane flame can go from anywhere between 400°C to 1000°C. To my knowledge no manufacturer has ever disclaimed that their product should be used below 200°C or else fluorinated polymer fumes are released into your kitchen. Downplaying the health impact of those fumes is distracting from the manufacturers' omission. Also we shouldn't defend this with the safety of PTFE in implants, this is misleading because they are completely inert at body temperatures it does not help any discussion regarding the safety a pervasive cookware.
    - nate_meurer 7y ago
      Nobody is downplaying the health impact of overheated non-stick cookware. There just doesn't seem to be much of an impact. Think about this for just a minute. Millions of idiots crank the heat on their cheapo non-stick pans every day. I know people who sear steaks in their nonstick for fucks sake. This has been happening since the 1960's. If there was a significant hazard in this activity, don't you think someone would be able to find it? The fact that cookware makers aren't overly concerned with temperature warnings should tell you something about the health risk here. There is little liability risk to them because apparently there is no demonstrable health risk. At the risk of repeating myself endlessly: > read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. If you can find any evidence of negative health impacts from nonstick cookware, there are thousands of ambulance-chasing personal injury lawyers who would love to see your work.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      The pans I recently bought came with warning about proper temperature ranges. FWIW, William-Sonoma says theirs do too: https://blog.williams-sonoma.com/is-nonstick-safe/ https://blog.williams-sonoma.com/is-nonstick-safe/ I’d bet most people don’t read the directions for their pan, and if they do, they’re probably not measuring the temperature of their pan during use. They’re probably just trying not to burn their butter or smoke their oil, which happens around 200c anyway. And you might have another reason to worry about that food fried at 200c+: many foods cooked at high temperatures themselves form carcinogenic substances.