5 ms·

This stuff is in drinking water which seems bad, but what are the dangers of Teflon and Gore-Tex clothing?

jfim 7y ago
The company manufacturing Teflon has been disposing of chemicals used during the manufacture of Teflon in such a way that those chemicals end up in the drinking water supply of communities surrounding factories.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Relevant comment/thread from a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22117840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22117840 Huffington Post article: https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-beautiful-parkersburg https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-b... Dark Waters film on the topic: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/ DuPont was the entity responsible for the pollution and coverup.
  - bsk26 7y ago
    I thought Dark Waters was good but the nytimes article it is based on is even better https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwjh1dfvkKLnAhVXVs0KHR-_A8UQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3cb_s-HqLSWKMlaEoyNBDg&ampcf=1 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... If you're concerned about goretex and dwrs, everything made by Nikwax uses different technology and is PFA free. Goretex might be safe for end user (or might not) but the manufacturing process is probably environmentally risky ... I wouldn't buy goretex for non-critical uses. So use it for mountaineering but not in the ski resort or on the way to work
    - amarshall 7y ago
      AMP-free URL: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-b...
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Mods: Would be bee’s knees if HN code rewrote AMP links to direct URL on commit, comments and submissions.
        floydnoel 7y ago
        As a counterpoint, I prefer the AMP links
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Considering the permanence and longevity of comments and submissions, I propose that direct canonical URLs are preferable to something Google will eventually sunset. Apologies if this slightly degrades the near term browsing experience.
- humaniania 7y ago
  Other companies are doing the same thing: https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/11/wolverine-shoes-still-coated-in-pfas-product-testing-shows.html https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/11/wolverine-shoes-still-coa...
- nate_meurer 7y ago
  Also, the U.S. military deliberately dumps tons of this shit right on the ground every year. They use it in firefighting foam, and spray it freely in regular fire fighting exercises at dozens of military bases around the country. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/10/firefighting-foam-afff-pfos-pfoa-epa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/10/firefighting-foam-afff-p...
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    That and the jet fuel are powerful reasons to never live near a military base.
swiley 7y ago
You probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of Teflon (although IMO you probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of PS either heh)
- kube-system 7y ago
  PTFE is non-toxic. Health concerns are about production byproducts and thermal decomposition.
- nate_meurer 7y ago
  Teflon is entirely different from the PFAS chemicals that the article is talking about. There is no evidence that fluoropolymers like PTFE are a health risk. PTFE and PVDF in particular have been widely used for over 50 years in applications that bring us into intimate contact with them on a daily basis, like cookware and medical implants. They have been heavily studied, and have never been shown to be a risk to human health in any way, so long as they aren't burned.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    > so long as they aren't burned That is one big caveat, Teflon is in cookware, under direct flames, is there more precise info on what being "burned" actually means temperature-wise in Celsius?
    - nate_meurer 7y ago
      Depends on the specific coating, but even the cheapest non-stick cookware is good for 200 deg C. Higher quality coatings are guaranteed for pretty darned high temperatures. For example, Calphalon guarantees their top-end non-stick up to 260 deg C. I am personally a total baby about the few non-stick pieces I own. The only things they cook are eggs, and I don't let anyone else use them. But that's just because I'm precious about their condition, not because I fear fumes. As I said in an other comment downthread: > PTFE does emit some uniquely nasty chemicals when overheated, but in mercifully small quantities, and the effects seem to be temporary. If you read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. Considering that there are millions of amateur cooks out there abusing non-stick pans every day since the 1960's, I'd say that's a pretty fucking good track record.

jfim 7y ago

The company manufacturing Teflon has been disposing of chemicals used during the manufacture of Teflon in such a way that those chemicals end up in the drinking water supply of communities surrounding factories.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Relevant comment/thread from a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22117840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22117840 Huffington Post article: https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-beautiful-parkersburg https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-b... Dark Waters film on the topic: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/ DuPont was the entity responsible for the pollution and coverup.
- bsk26 7y ago
  I thought Dark Waters was good but the nytimes article it is based on is even better https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwjh1dfvkKLnAhVXVs0KHR-_A8UQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3cb_s-HqLSWKMlaEoyNBDg&ampcf=1 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/... If you're concerned about goretex and dwrs, everything made by Nikwax uses different technology and is PFA free. Goretex might be safe for end user (or might not) but the manufacturing process is probably environmentally risky ... I wouldn't buy goretex for non-critical uses. So use it for mountaineering but not in the ski resort or on the way to work
  - amarshall 7y ago
    AMP-free URL: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-became-duponts-worst-nightmare.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/magazine/the-lawyer-who-b...
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Mods: Would be bee’s knees if HN code rewrote AMP links to direct URL on commit, comments and submissions.
      - floydnoel 7y ago
        As a counterpoint, I prefer the AMP links
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Considering the permanence and longevity of comments and submissions, I propose that direct canonical URLs are preferable to something Google will eventually sunset. Apologies if this slightly degrades the near term browsing experience.
humaniania 7y ago
Other companies are doing the same thing: https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/11/wolverine-shoes-still-coated-in-pfas-product-testing-shows.html https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/11/wolverine-shoes-still-coa...
nate_meurer 7y ago
Also, the U.S. military deliberately dumps tons of this shit right on the ground every year. They use it in firefighting foam, and spray it freely in regular fire fighting exercises at dozens of military bases around the country. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/10/firefighting-foam-afff-pfos-pfoa-epa/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/10/firefighting-foam-afff-p...
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  That and the jet fuel are powerful reasons to never live near a military base.

swiley 7y ago

You probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of Teflon (although IMO you probably shouldn’t be exposing yourself to a lot of PS either heh)

kube-system 7y ago
PTFE is non-toxic. Health concerns are about production byproducts and thermal decomposition.
nate_meurer 7y ago
Teflon is entirely different from the PFAS chemicals that the article is talking about. There is no evidence that fluoropolymers like PTFE are a health risk. PTFE and PVDF in particular have been widely used for over 50 years in applications that bring us into intimate contact with them on a daily basis, like cookware and medical implants. They have been heavily studied, and have never been shown to be a risk to human health in any way, so long as they aren't burned.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  > so long as they aren't burned That is one big caveat, Teflon is in cookware, under direct flames, is there more precise info on what being "burned" actually means temperature-wise in Celsius?
  - nate_meurer 7y ago
    Depends on the specific coating, but even the cheapest non-stick cookware is good for 200 deg C. Higher quality coatings are guaranteed for pretty darned high temperatures. For example, Calphalon guarantees their top-end non-stick up to 260 deg C. I am personally a total baby about the few non-stick pieces I own. The only things they cook are eggs, and I don't let anyone else use them. But that's just because I'm precious about their condition, not because I fear fumes. As I said in an other comment downthread: > PTFE does emit some uniquely nasty chemicals when overheated, but in mercifully small quantities, and the effects seem to be temporary. If you read up on fluorinated polymer fume exposure, you'll find exactly zero known deaths, only a handful of known injuries, and no firm evidence of long term health effects. Considering that there are millions of amateur cooks out there abusing non-stick pans every day since the 1960's, I'd say that's a pretty fucking good track record.