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The people of Turkey have voted for him right? He improved their economic situation enormously, this is democracy, you get who you vote for.

toyg 7y ago
The regularity of Turkish elections is... disputed, to say the least. Before and after Erdogan.
- aerodog 7y ago
  Really? Who says this?
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    Names and addresses? Edit: In case it is not clear, this is a (poor taste) joke. The track record for beating those who dissent even when outside of Turkey is well established.
  - woodandsteel 7y ago
    One way to make elections less free and fair is to cut off access to information from the opposition, and one way of doing this is to cut off access to Wikipedia. Is it your opinion that the government was right to do this?
lostlogin 7y ago
It’s not clear. The elections were widely reported to be fraudulent and voter intimidation and violence were widely reported. A meaningful portion of the world’s imprisoned reporters are in Turkey. It is trivial to find articles and reports on this.
- decafbad 7y ago
  He has half of the country's full support. I can easily see that.
  - SahAssar 7y ago
    > I can easily see that. How? By what methods are you measuring that?
- mengibar10 7y ago
  and you can say that while Erdogan's party lost all local elections couple of months ago in all major cities like Ankara, Istanbul?
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    > It is trivial to find articles and reports on this. I’ll link to the Wiki, as that seems right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Turkish_presidential_election#Controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Turkish_presidential_el...
    - mengibar10 7y ago
      What you're trying to claim is ludicrous. He won the presidential elections by a far margin of 22 percent points however in local elections his party lost by only about 0.16 percent points (48.77% vs 48.61%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections You are entitled to have your own opinion, not to the facts.
      - lostlogin 7y ago
        And the violence and voter intimidation? I don’t understand what you are saying I’m wrong about. I’m stating that fraud, violence and intimidation maintain Erdogan’s power. Edit: My link was to the 2018 presidential election, yours is to the more recent 2019 elections. Edit 2: I’m not sure what you find reassuring about the 2019 elections - is that the link you intended to post? The bit titled “Controversies and issues” is completely terrible.
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  Didn’t the opposition candidate concede that Erdogan won the election fair and square last time around? Why would the Turkish opposition lie if it’s not to their advantage?
woodandsteel 7y ago
Except lately the economy has been getting much worse. This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments. When they get into power they institute a set of economic policies that lead to wide-spread prosperity in the short term, but in the long-term are a disaster. As far as elections go, the government pretends to be in favor of free and fair elections, but its political philosophy is a set of arguments as to why they are a terrible idea and ought to be eliminated. Which is just what the Ergogan goverment has been attempting to do in a step-by-step fashion.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  > This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments. Left-wing populist governments have been known to do that, too. And left-wing populist governments have also been known to place a thumb on the scales of elections, in order to make sure that they come out "correctly".
  - woodandsteel 7y ago
    I agree, these are also often problems with left-wing populist governments. The reason I was talking about right-wing populist governments is that is what Turkey has.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  Can you tell me how you classify right wing and left wing?
  - woodandsteel 7y ago
    Like many things in the area of political philosophy, the distinction is an inexact one. But roughly speaking, right-wing political philosophies stress ethnicity, traditional culture and usually religion, whereas left-wing political philosophies are universalist and based on Enlightement philosphy. Also left-wing philosophy is socialist, whereas right-wing tends to be crony capitalism.
thenewnewguy 7y ago
Ignoring widespread belief that the Turkish elections were less than fair, this kind of sentiment about politicians always surprises me. If I vote for a candidate why am I required to forever support every thing they do? I can vote for someone and still disagree (even strongly) with some of their decisions.
int_19h 7y ago
The majority shouldn't get to arbitrarily trample the rights of the minority.
Twixes 7y ago
Well… There's this one example from the 1930s where the people got who they voted for and it turned out horribly… In an unprecedented way, really. So being elected does not automatically mean being a righteous ruler. Although of course in that case there's no other way as to campaign for righteousness. Coups sponsored from abroad rarely turn out well for the people.

toyg 7y ago

The regularity of Turkish elections is... disputed, to say the least. Before and after Erdogan.

aerodog 7y ago
Really? Who says this?
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Names and addresses? Edit: In case it is not clear, this is a (poor taste) joke. The track record for beating those who dissent even when outside of Turkey is well established.
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  One way to make elections less free and fair is to cut off access to information from the opposition, and one way of doing this is to cut off access to Wikipedia. Is it your opinion that the government was right to do this?

lostlogin 7y ago

It’s not clear. The elections were widely reported to be fraudulent and voter intimidation and violence were widely reported. A meaningful portion of the world’s imprisoned reporters are in Turkey. It is trivial to find articles and reports on this.

decafbad 7y ago
He has half of the country's full support. I can easily see that.
- SahAssar 7y ago
  > I can easily see that. How? By what methods are you measuring that?
mengibar10 7y ago
and you can say that while Erdogan's party lost all local elections couple of months ago in all major cities like Ankara, Istanbul?
- lostlogin 7y ago
  > It is trivial to find articles and reports on this. I’ll link to the Wiki, as that seems right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Turkish_presidential_election#Controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Turkish_presidential_el...
  - mengibar10 7y ago
    What you're trying to claim is ludicrous. He won the presidential elections by a far margin of 22 percent points however in local elections his party lost by only about 0.16 percent points (48.77% vs 48.61%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Turkish_local_elections You are entitled to have your own opinion, not to the facts.
    - lostlogin 7y ago
      And the violence and voter intimidation? I don’t understand what you are saying I’m wrong about. I’m stating that fraud, violence and intimidation maintain Erdogan’s power. Edit: My link was to the 2018 presidential election, yours is to the more recent 2019 elections. Edit 2: I’m not sure what you find reassuring about the 2019 elections - is that the link you intended to post? The bit titled “Controversies and issues” is completely terrible.
Cyph0n 7y ago
Didn’t the opposition candidate concede that Erdogan won the election fair and square last time around? Why would the Turkish opposition lie if it’s not to their advantage?

woodandsteel 7y ago

Except lately the economy has been getting much worse. This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments. When they get into power they institute a set of economic policies that lead to wide-spread prosperity in the short term, but in the long-term are a disaster. As far as elections go, the government pretends to be in favor of free and fair elections, but its political philosophy is a set of arguments as to why they are a terrible idea and ought to be eliminated. Which is just what the Ergogan goverment has been attempting to do in a step-by-step fashion.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> This is a regular pattern with right-wing populist governments. Left-wing populist governments have been known to do that, too. And left-wing populist governments have also been known to place a thumb on the scales of elections, in order to make sure that they come out "correctly".
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  I agree, these are also often problems with left-wing populist governments. The reason I was talking about right-wing populist governments is that is what Turkey has.
thrwaway69 7y ago
Can you tell me how you classify right wing and left wing?
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  Like many things in the area of political philosophy, the distinction is an inexact one. But roughly speaking, right-wing political philosophies stress ethnicity, traditional culture and usually religion, whereas left-wing political philosophies are universalist and based on Enlightement philosphy. Also left-wing philosophy is socialist, whereas right-wing tends to be crony capitalism.

thenewnewguy 7y ago

Ignoring widespread belief that the Turkish elections were less than fair, this kind of sentiment about politicians always surprises me. If I vote for a candidate why am I required to forever support every thing they do? I can vote for someone and still disagree (even strongly) with some of their decisions.

int_19h 7y ago

The majority shouldn't get to arbitrarily trample the rights of the minority.

Twixes 7y ago

Well… There's this one example from the 1930s where the people got who they voted for and it turned out horribly… In an unprecedented way, really. So being elected does not automatically mean being a righteous ruler. Although of course in that case there's no other way as to campaign for righteousness. Coups sponsored from abroad rarely turn out well for the people.