4 ms·

Sure. Or a light RDBMS where the main not supported case is concurrent writes.

bane 7y ago
No, SQLite provides no RDBMS functionality. It is not an RDBMS. It is a file format. Saying that a program that opens and reads/writes a file through a file format API is a light RDBMS turns almost every program in history into an RDBMS. If SQLite didn't force you to use SQL as the read/write logic, absolutely nobody would confuse it for an RDBMS. That's because it's a file format.
- gwd 7y ago
  > No, SQLite provides no RDBMS functionality. I think your comment would be more comprehensible if you gave some examples of the kind of functionality you think is missing. I don't know what you mean by "RDBMS", but JSON and XML don't do joins, don't do views, don't do efficient query plans, and so on. It's either ignorance or obstinacy to say SQLite is just a file format.
  - bane 7y ago
    > ...but JSON and XML don't do joins, don't do views, don't do efficient query plans, and so on. It's either ignorance or obstinacy to say SQLite is just a file format. Sure they do. If you write the logic to do so, and put it behind a nice API, you can make all of this come true. In fact, millions of people every day do joins with JSON and XML in their code every day. You can probably just use Apache Drill as the "library" in this sense to facilitate joins and whatnot. The creators of the SQLite library simply build that stuff into their library for you. SQLite is a file format. It has a nice library full of wonderful utility functions for reading/writing that file format and a simple to use API that is operated by sending SQL to it. It is exactly the same as reading and writing any other file format with any other API and library. The more you understand SQLite as a file format with a nice reference API implementation, the more it makes sense. It is not the same as using an RDBMS and offers almost none of the things and RDBMS might offer. The more you try to figure out how it's not like PostgreSQL or Oracle or MongoDB, the more confused you'll make yourself. It's no more an RDBMS than a .docx file is.
    - gwd 7y ago
      First of all, you still haven't answered the question: What is it that an RDBMS has that SQLite doesn't have? > It's no more an RDBMS than a .docx file is. Thanks for the idea. Your argument is like saying this: Microsoft Word is not a word processor -- it's a file format. I mean, yes, Word has a file format; but it's far more than just a format specification. > Sure they do. If you write the logic to do so, Right, but you don't have to write the logic if you're using SQLite. That's the point. SQLite is a library, which provides a way to do SQL operations on data. Like Word, SQLite has a file format, but it is far more. I just don't get where you're coming from. Do you not know that the SQLite libray can actually do complex SQL queries on data? Or do you think that people shouldn't do that for some reason? Or do you just value SQL queries so little that you don't see any difference between being able to do complex queries and doing `file.Write(json.Marshal(data))`? What is it you're trying to accomplish with this line of argument?
      - bane 7y ago
        > First of all, you still haven't answered the question: What is it that an RDBMS has that SQLite doesn't have? And RDBMS is a well defined thing and is literally what the acronym expands to mean. This is very old technology with an interesting history and I really implore you and anybody reading this to go read up on it. It's not just whatever we assume it to be or some kind of data bucket with SQL. > Microsoft Word is not a word processor -- it's a file format. No, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that .docx is a file format. Word is both an application for editing documents and contains a reference implementation for reading/writing .docx formatted files. There are many libraries that can read .docx files and some of them are also part of document editing software. > Right, but you don't have to write the logic if you're using SQLite. That's the point. SQLite is a library, which provides a way to do SQL operations on data. Like Word, SQLite has a file format, but it is far more. I just don't get where you're coming from. Do you not know that the SQLite libray can actually do complex SQL queries on data? Or do you think that people shouldn't do that for some reason? Or do you just value SQL queries so little that you don't see any difference between being able to do complex queries and doing `file.Write(json.Marshal(data))`? What is it you're trying to accomplish with this line of argument? Precision of thought. People don't go around calling fish oceans, or forks restaurants. The SQLite library does what you've described to SQLite files. But you don't need the SQLite library to work on SQLite files. You don't need even need SQL. e.g. https://sqljet.com/ https://sqljet.com/ Just because a library offers SQL as a convenient tool to read/write data into its file format everybody loses their minds and starts to think the library is some kind feature reduced Oracle cluster. Go back to my first post. People are approach what SQLite is from the wrong direction (RDBMS) and its confusing the fuck out of everybody who gets near it. This is important. IT departments and governments make very large, very expensive decisions based on if people know that SQLite is closer to CSV files than to Oracle databases. I literally sat in a meeting last week where a senior decision-maker at a client wouldn't accept delivery of some software because it used SQLite and didn't want to add maintenance of yet another database to their overworked DBA staff and didn't want to hire a dedicated person to manage it. So now, instead of just taking delivery of the software, some of it has to be rewritten to use the client's RDBMS system, which in turn actually will add workload to the overworked DBA staff and will also perform worse. SQLite IS A FILE FORMAT with a really nice library for reading/writing to that format.
- cma 7y ago
  It can open multiple files (the transaction log).
  - bane 7y ago
    Almost any modern programming language can open multiple files.
    - cma 7y ago
      At a minimum it is multiple file formats. But really it is multiple file formats + a fairly intricate library for dealing with them along with locks etc. According to their home page the SQLite database file format is a file format, and SQLite is a library.
      - bane 7y ago
        No but close. A SQlite file is a single format. The journal file and the WAL file are different formats used for bookkeeping by the library to attempt to be ACID compliant. The library implements some complex logic to ensure this, but reading/writing a SQLite file does not require any of this. You could write your own code tomorrow that reads/writes SQLite files but does not produce, read, or write WAL or Journal files. So long as the resultant SQLite file follows the specification, it can be read by any other piece of software that implements the specification, such as the SQLite library or SQLJet (https://sqljet.com/ https://sqljet.com/).

bane 7y ago

No, SQLite provides no RDBMS functionality. It is not an RDBMS. It is a file format. Saying that a program that opens and reads/writes a file through a file format API is a light RDBMS turns almost every program in history into an RDBMS. If SQLite didn't force you to use SQL as the read/write logic, absolutely nobody would confuse it for an RDBMS. That's because it's a file format.

gwd 7y ago
> No, SQLite provides no RDBMS functionality. I think your comment would be more comprehensible if you gave some examples of the kind of functionality you think is missing. I don't know what you mean by "RDBMS", but JSON and XML don't do joins, don't do views, don't do efficient query plans, and so on. It's either ignorance or obstinacy to say SQLite is just a file format.
- bane 7y ago
  > ...but JSON and XML don't do joins, don't do views, don't do efficient query plans, and so on. It's either ignorance or obstinacy to say SQLite is just a file format. Sure they do. If you write the logic to do so, and put it behind a nice API, you can make all of this come true. In fact, millions of people every day do joins with JSON and XML in their code every day. You can probably just use Apache Drill as the "library" in this sense to facilitate joins and whatnot. The creators of the SQLite library simply build that stuff into their library for you. SQLite is a file format. It has a nice library full of wonderful utility functions for reading/writing that file format and a simple to use API that is operated by sending SQL to it. It is exactly the same as reading and writing any other file format with any other API and library. The more you understand SQLite as a file format with a nice reference API implementation, the more it makes sense. It is not the same as using an RDBMS and offers almost none of the things and RDBMS might offer. The more you try to figure out how it's not like PostgreSQL or Oracle or MongoDB, the more confused you'll make yourself. It's no more an RDBMS than a .docx file is.
  - gwd 7y ago
    First of all, you still haven't answered the question: What is it that an RDBMS has that SQLite doesn't have? > It's no more an RDBMS than a .docx file is. Thanks for the idea. Your argument is like saying this: Microsoft Word is not a word processor -- it's a file format. I mean, yes, Word has a file format; but it's far more than just a format specification. > Sure they do. If you write the logic to do so, Right, but you don't have to write the logic if you're using SQLite. That's the point. SQLite is a library, which provides a way to do SQL operations on data. Like Word, SQLite has a file format, but it is far more. I just don't get where you're coming from. Do you not know that the SQLite libray can actually do complex SQL queries on data? Or do you think that people shouldn't do that for some reason? Or do you just value SQL queries so little that you don't see any difference between being able to do complex queries and doing `file.Write(json.Marshal(data))`? What is it you're trying to accomplish with this line of argument?
    - bane 7y ago
      > First of all, you still haven't answered the question: What is it that an RDBMS has that SQLite doesn't have? And RDBMS is a well defined thing and is literally what the acronym expands to mean. This is very old technology with an interesting history and I really implore you and anybody reading this to go read up on it. It's not just whatever we assume it to be or some kind of data bucket with SQL. > Microsoft Word is not a word processor -- it's a file format. No, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that .docx is a file format. Word is both an application for editing documents and contains a reference implementation for reading/writing .docx formatted files. There are many libraries that can read .docx files and some of them are also part of document editing software. > Right, but you don't have to write the logic if you're using SQLite. That's the point. SQLite is a library, which provides a way to do SQL operations on data. Like Word, SQLite has a file format, but it is far more. I just don't get where you're coming from. Do you not know that the SQLite libray can actually do complex SQL queries on data? Or do you think that people shouldn't do that for some reason? Or do you just value SQL queries so little that you don't see any difference between being able to do complex queries and doing `file.Write(json.Marshal(data))`? What is it you're trying to accomplish with this line of argument? Precision of thought. People don't go around calling fish oceans, or forks restaurants. The SQLite library does what you've described to SQLite files. But you don't need the SQLite library to work on SQLite files. You don't need even need SQL. e.g. https://sqljet.com/ https://sqljet.com/ Just because a library offers SQL as a convenient tool to read/write data into its file format everybody loses their minds and starts to think the library is some kind feature reduced Oracle cluster. Go back to my first post. People are approach what SQLite is from the wrong direction (RDBMS) and its confusing the fuck out of everybody who gets near it. This is important. IT departments and governments make very large, very expensive decisions based on if people know that SQLite is closer to CSV files than to Oracle databases. I literally sat in a meeting last week where a senior decision-maker at a client wouldn't accept delivery of some software because it used SQLite and didn't want to add maintenance of yet another database to their overworked DBA staff and didn't want to hire a dedicated person to manage it. So now, instead of just taking delivery of the software, some of it has to be rewritten to use the client's RDBMS system, which in turn actually will add workload to the overworked DBA staff and will also perform worse. SQLite IS A FILE FORMAT with a really nice library for reading/writing to that format.
cma 7y ago
It can open multiple files (the transaction log).
- bane 7y ago
  Almost any modern programming language can open multiple files.
  - cma 7y ago
    At a minimum it is multiple file formats. But really it is multiple file formats + a fairly intricate library for dealing with them along with locks etc. According to their home page the SQLite database file format is a file format, and SQLite is a library.
    - bane 7y ago
      No but close. A SQlite file is a single format. The journal file and the WAL file are different formats used for bookkeeping by the library to attempt to be ACID compliant. The library implements some complex logic to ensure this, but reading/writing a SQLite file does not require any of this. You could write your own code tomorrow that reads/writes SQLite files but does not produce, read, or write WAL or Journal files. So long as the resultant SQLite file follows the specification, it can be read by any other piece of software that implements the specification, such as the SQLite library or SQLJet (https://sqljet.com/ https://sqljet.com/).