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A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Window

A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Windows.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
Darwin and NT x.0 releases have the same tenancy to break, the same advice to wait for x.0.1, and less ability to fix it yourself.
pkulak 7y ago
These things kinda happen everywhere though: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-how-to-fix-them https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-...
simion314 7y ago
Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. A casual user might not even know that those things are called "windows" or that you can maximize them or that most application have settings where you can change the behavior you dislike. Causal users just use the system how it is, I sometimes find them suffering trough a complicated workflow because they did not consider to even ask themselves "maybe this can be improved, maybe there is a setting to do this or a shortcut or some better way"
- acqq 7y ago
  > Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. Casual user hears about Linux, and that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux, then goes to the site https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/ And reads: "Ubuntu 19.10 is here The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning. Download Ubuntu 19.10 now" And the problems begin -- he will have to upgrade twice a year. The branding would have to be different for that not to happen. The LTS should not be called LTS but simply Ubuntu. All the versions between two LTS versions should be called like Ubuntu Developer Preview 19.10, and they should be offered easily on the site. Then one could claim that the casual user wouldn't use the "Developer Preview" versions. As it is for years, it's not so. Just explaining what the exact difference between LTS and "newest Ubuntu" and why they are still offered the "newest Ubuntu" on the web page would at best confuse or annoy the "causal user." The casual user will "the newest" but "the newest that works" and that he "doesn't have to change." Not in the sense that nothing is updated but that the updates aren't invasive to him. And the "newest Ubuntu" versions are invasive -- the last time I've tried such, not even a GUI partition manager worked.
  - simion314 7y ago
    Casual users don't install an OS, as i said they don't even install an ad blocker or change the keyboard shortcuts to an app. The people you are talking about are enthusiasts, the probably re-installed Windows before too,
    - acqq 7y ago
      > Casual users don't install an OS Your definition is useless: it would just mean that casual users simply never use Linux OS at all, and aren't supposed to use it, as these with your definition also wouldn't have an awareness to specifically buy a separate computer with preinstalled Linux. To make a definition of a "Linux casual user" in any way meaningful, you have to assume that it's somebody who would like to try to use Linux, especially without a specific desire to pay for a new computer for that. Oh, and also without the specific desire and readiness to use command line having the ingrained assumption that the GUI tools simply don't work, which is relatively common case in desktop Linux, even with LTE. By the way, my quote also shows what Ubuntu consider their casual user, based on the strengths they advertise: "The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." I'd say, from their point of view, the target user on that page is, interestingly, somebody who needs but is undecided which Linux platform to use for "Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." Which is also interesting, but also doesn't follow that such a person would expect his installed OS to have broken applications every 6 months because of OS experimentation in compositors or whatever.
      - simion314 7y ago
        OK, so you were meaning casual Linux user not a casual computer user. In my definition a casual user has his computer setup and managed by somebody else. Someone that helps the casual person to buy the laptop/PC that fits their budget and needs, that installs the browser and extensions for them, that installs the apps they need like Skype.Word installs the printer and other devices for them. Someone that can installs Linux (usually you need to go in BIOS/UEFI to enable boot order and disable secure boot and other shit) is not a casual in my opinion. Do you think that Ubuntu users are the casuals and Arch are the power users? I will disagree with that, I used Arch in the past but now I am happy with Kubuntu LTS just because a DE and OS is a launcher for my applications and not a identity. About Ubuntu home page, I assume Canonical is not trying to target the casuals with that page, casuals can't just download and install Ubuntu on any random laptop or PC, there s also no money to be made.
brylie 7y ago
I was just being honest that there are still some unforseeable difficulties, as well as mistakes that I have made. I think any operating system can present challenges that are difficult for novice users. That's why we have user groups, tech support, and repair services.

A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Windows.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

Darwin and NT x.0 releases have the same tenancy to break, the same advice to wait for x.0.1, and less ability to fix it yourself.

pkulak 7y ago

These things kinda happen everywhere though: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-how-to-fix-them https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-...

simion314 7y ago

Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. A casual user might not even know that those things are called "windows" or that you can maximize them or that most application have settings where you can change the behavior you dislike. Causal users just use the system how it is, I sometimes find them suffering trough a complicated workflow because they did not consider to even ask themselves "maybe this can be improved, maybe there is a setting to do this or a shortcut or some better way"

acqq 7y ago
> Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. Casual user hears about Linux, and that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux, then goes to the site https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/ And reads: "Ubuntu 19.10 is here The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning. Download Ubuntu 19.10 now" And the problems begin -- he will have to upgrade twice a year. The branding would have to be different for that not to happen. The LTS should not be called LTS but simply Ubuntu. All the versions between two LTS versions should be called like Ubuntu Developer Preview 19.10, and they should be offered easily on the site. Then one could claim that the casual user wouldn't use the "Developer Preview" versions. As it is for years, it's not so. Just explaining what the exact difference between LTS and "newest Ubuntu" and why they are still offered the "newest Ubuntu" on the web page would at best confuse or annoy the "causal user." The casual user will "the newest" but "the newest that works" and that he "doesn't have to change." Not in the sense that nothing is updated but that the updates aren't invasive to him. And the "newest Ubuntu" versions are invasive -- the last time I've tried such, not even a GUI partition manager worked.
- simion314 7y ago
  Casual users don't install an OS, as i said they don't even install an ad blocker or change the keyboard shortcuts to an app. The people you are talking about are enthusiasts, the probably re-installed Windows before too,
  - acqq 7y ago
    > Casual users don't install an OS Your definition is useless: it would just mean that casual users simply never use Linux OS at all, and aren't supposed to use it, as these with your definition also wouldn't have an awareness to specifically buy a separate computer with preinstalled Linux. To make a definition of a "Linux casual user" in any way meaningful, you have to assume that it's somebody who would like to try to use Linux, especially without a specific desire to pay for a new computer for that. Oh, and also without the specific desire and readiness to use command line having the ingrained assumption that the GUI tools simply don't work, which is relatively common case in desktop Linux, even with LTE. By the way, my quote also shows what Ubuntu consider their casual user, based on the strengths they advertise: "The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." I'd say, from their point of view, the target user on that page is, interestingly, somebody who needs but is undecided which Linux platform to use for "Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." Which is also interesting, but also doesn't follow that such a person would expect his installed OS to have broken applications every 6 months because of OS experimentation in compositors or whatever.
    - simion314 7y ago
      OK, so you were meaning casual Linux user not a casual computer user. In my definition a casual user has his computer setup and managed by somebody else. Someone that helps the casual person to buy the laptop/PC that fits their budget and needs, that installs the browser and extensions for them, that installs the apps they need like Skype.Word installs the printer and other devices for them. Someone that can installs Linux (usually you need to go in BIOS/UEFI to enable boot order and disable secure boot and other shit) is not a casual in my opinion. Do you think that Ubuntu users are the casuals and Arch are the power users? I will disagree with that, I used Arch in the past but now I am happy with Kubuntu LTS just because a DE and OS is a launcher for my applications and not a identity. About Ubuntu home page, I assume Canonical is not trying to target the casuals with that page, casuals can't just download and install Ubuntu on any random laptop or PC, there s also no money to be made.

brylie 7y ago

I was just being honest that there are still some unforseeable difficulties, as well as mistakes that I have made. I think any operating system can present challenges that are difficult for novice users. That's why we have user groups, tech support, and repair services.