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I've been using Kubuntu at home and work for over four years now, and it has been a stable and productive experience. The only significant difficulty I can reca

by brylie 7y ago

I've been using Kubuntu at home and work for over four years now, and it has been a stable and productive experience. The only significant difficulty I can recall was immediately after upgrading from 19.04 to 19.10, where GRUB was having difficulty with a Secure Boot extension. I should have waited for the 19.10.1 release, but the issue was relatively easy to fix by commenting out a line in GRUB config. I really believe that Ubuntu and Kubuntu are reaching a high level of simplicity and stability where they can be adopted or at least tried out by people who are more casual computer users (or who just want to stay productive.)

algorithmmonkey 7y ago
A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Windows.
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  Darwin and NT x.0 releases have the same tenancy to break, the same advice to wait for x.0.1, and less ability to fix it yourself.
- pkulak 7y ago
  These things kinda happen everywhere though: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-how-to-fix-them https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-...
- simion314 7y ago
  Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. A casual user might not even know that those things are called "windows" or that you can maximize them or that most application have settings where you can change the behavior you dislike. Causal users just use the system how it is, I sometimes find them suffering trough a complicated workflow because they did not consider to even ask themselves "maybe this can be improved, maybe there is a setting to do this or a shortcut or some better way"
  - acqq 7y ago
    > Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. Casual user hears about Linux, and that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux, then goes to the site https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/ And reads: "Ubuntu 19.10 is here The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning. Download Ubuntu 19.10 now" And the problems begin -- he will have to upgrade twice a year. The branding would have to be different for that not to happen. The LTS should not be called LTS but simply Ubuntu. All the versions between two LTS versions should be called like Ubuntu Developer Preview 19.10, and they should be offered easily on the site. Then one could claim that the casual user wouldn't use the "Developer Preview" versions. As it is for years, it's not so. Just explaining what the exact difference between LTS and "newest Ubuntu" and why they are still offered the "newest Ubuntu" on the web page would at best confuse or annoy the "causal user." The casual user will "the newest" but "the newest that works" and that he "doesn't have to change." Not in the sense that nothing is updated but that the updates aren't invasive to him. And the "newest Ubuntu" versions are invasive -- the last time I've tried such, not even a GUI partition manager worked.
    - simion314 7y ago
      Casual users don't install an OS, as i said they don't even install an ad blocker or change the keyboard shortcuts to an app. The people you are talking about are enthusiasts, the probably re-installed Windows before too,
      - acqq 7y ago
        > Casual users don't install an OS Your definition is useless: it would just mean that casual users simply never use Linux OS at all, and aren't supposed to use it, as these with your definition also wouldn't have an awareness to specifically buy a separate computer with preinstalled Linux. To make a definition of a "Linux casual user" in any way meaningful, you have to assume that it's somebody who would like to try to use Linux, especially without a specific desire to pay for a new computer for that. Oh, and also without the specific desire and readiness to use command line having the ingrained assumption that the GUI tools simply don't work, which is relatively common case in desktop Linux, even with LTE. By the way, my quote also shows what Ubuntu consider their casual user, based on the strengths they advertise: "The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." I'd say, from their point of view, the target user on that page is, interestingly, somebody who needs but is undecided which Linux platform to use for "Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." Which is also interesting, but also doesn't follow that such a person would expect his installed OS to have broken applications every 6 months because of OS experimentation in compositors or whatever.
- brylie 7y ago
  I was just being honest that there are still some unforseeable difficulties, as well as mistakes that I have made. I think any operating system can present challenges that are difficult for novice users. That's why we have user groups, tech support, and repair services.
PaulBGD_ 7y ago
I recently set up my mother a new desktop, which I realized her suite of software was small enough to get running on Linux. I set up kubuntu, then wine with Microsoft money and she adjusted within a day (without a single question of me!) Now I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how or what software to install if she wanted to, but at this point her Linux setup is cleaner than mine.

by brylie 7y ago

algorithmmonkey 7y ago

A casual computer user is going to figure out they need to comment out a GRUB line? Nope. That is an experience that will push them right back to OSX or Windows.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
Darwin and NT x.0 releases have the same tenancy to break, the same advice to wait for x.0.1, and less ability to fix it yourself.
pkulak 7y ago
These things kinda happen everywhere though: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-how-to-fix-them https://www.techradar.com/how-to/macos-1014-mojave-problems-...
simion314 7y ago
Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. A casual user might not even know that those things are called "windows" or that you can maximize them or that most application have settings where you can change the behavior you dislike. Causal users just use the system how it is, I sometimes find them suffering trough a complicated workflow because they did not consider to even ask themselves "maybe this can be improved, maybe there is a setting to do this or a shortcut or some better way"
- acqq 7y ago
  > Casual users don't upgrade 2 times a year. Casual user hears about Linux, and that Ubuntu is the most popular Linux, then goes to the site https://ubuntu.com/ https://ubuntu.com/ And reads: "Ubuntu 19.10 is here The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning. Download Ubuntu 19.10 now" And the problems begin -- he will have to upgrade twice a year. The branding would have to be different for that not to happen. The LTS should not be called LTS but simply Ubuntu. All the versions between two LTS versions should be called like Ubuntu Developer Preview 19.10, and they should be offered easily on the site. Then one could claim that the casual user wouldn't use the "Developer Preview" versions. As it is for years, it's not so. Just explaining what the exact difference between LTS and "newest Ubuntu" and why they are still offered the "newest Ubuntu" on the web page would at best confuse or annoy the "causal user." The casual user will "the newest" but "the newest that works" and that he "doesn't have to change." Not in the sense that nothing is updated but that the updates aren't invasive to him. And the "newest Ubuntu" versions are invasive -- the last time I've tried such, not even a GUI partition manager worked.
  - simion314 7y ago
    Casual users don't install an OS, as i said they don't even install an ad blocker or change the keyboard shortcuts to an app. The people you are talking about are enthusiasts, the probably re-installed Windows before too,
    - acqq 7y ago
      > Casual users don't install an OS Your definition is useless: it would just mean that casual users simply never use Linux OS at all, and aren't supposed to use it, as these with your definition also wouldn't have an awareness to specifically buy a separate computer with preinstalled Linux. To make a definition of a "Linux casual user" in any way meaningful, you have to assume that it's somebody who would like to try to use Linux, especially without a specific desire to pay for a new computer for that. Oh, and also without the specific desire and readiness to use command line having the ingrained assumption that the GUI tools simply don't work, which is relatively common case in desktop Linux, even with LTE. By the way, my quote also shows what Ubuntu consider their casual user, based on the strengths they advertise: "The latest version of the world’s most widely used Linux platform for Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." I'd say, from their point of view, the target user on that page is, interestingly, somebody who needs but is undecided which Linux platform to use for "Kubernetes, multi-cloud and machine learning." Which is also interesting, but also doesn't follow that such a person would expect his installed OS to have broken applications every 6 months because of OS experimentation in compositors or whatever.
brylie 7y ago
I was just being honest that there are still some unforseeable difficulties, as well as mistakes that I have made. I think any operating system can present challenges that are difficult for novice users. That's why we have user groups, tech support, and repair services.

PaulBGD_ 7y ago

I recently set up my mother a new desktop, which I realized her suite of software was small enough to get running on Linux. I set up kubuntu, then wine with Microsoft money and she adjusted within a day (without a single question of me!) Now I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how or what software to install if she wanted to, but at this point her Linux setup is cleaner than mine.