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To clarify your clarity. Beef cattle historically have started on milk, and then moved to pasture. In industrialised countries, beef cattle are fed on grains

by Jedd 7y ago

To clarify your clarity. Beef cattle historically have started on milk, and then moved to pasture. In industrialised countries, beef cattle are fed on grains for most or all of their lives. Perhaps for marketing reasons, I'm not sure, in some places, for some percentage of the herd, they're finished on pasture. Most CAFOs, as others have noted, are primarily started and completed with grain.

deleted 7y ago
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bumby 7y ago
Just to underscore the reason I felt the need to clarify, I don’t think it’s accurate to claim there are any cattle fed grain for “all” of their life. Like the previous statement about “exclusively grain fed diets”, it’s either needlessly hyperbolic or misleading.
- Jedd 7y ago
  Okay, I see your point. To weasel out slightly, I did say: " ... beef cattle are fed on grains for most or all of their lives." AIUI, CAFO-destined cattle are moved into feeding lots as soon as they're weaned -- say at a couple of months old. They're mostly on milk, with some grass, up to that point. But from that point on they're on grain-only. You said: > I’m not aware of farms using an “exclusively grain-based diet” and subsequently > My understanding is that these feedlots are where cattle are housed for the last few months to gain weight before slaughter. This doesn't align with my understanding. Once within a CAFO, the cattle stay there until slaughter -- say at age 18 months or less. During that time they're fed exclusively grain, as this ensures maximum growth / minimum time / best ratio of input cost to sale price / etc. Some may be finished on pasture, as this is an increasingly profitable market, plus it drastically reduces pathogens within the animal, and improves the flavour (so I'm told).
  - bumby 7y ago
    I think I understand where you’re coming from and I’m willing to bet you understand the nuance but my concern was mainly for the uninitiated reading and drawing too drastic of a conclusion. I think the USDA info I read was that the “typical” cattle are pasture raised for around 4 months before going to a feedlot. Once there, the feed may be as high as 90-95% grain. At that point it almost feels pedantic to claim they are anything but grain fed, but a purely grain diet can cause them to founder like horses on grass as another commenter said.
    - Jedd 7y ago
      Sure, and reading Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma -- which is where I first really got a good insight into these factories -- you'll discover that while corn may not be precisely 100% of the feed, chicken sweepings (manure, feather), peanut shells, fat from other slaughtered cows, etc make up a portion too. CAFOs are objectively horrendous, and I don't want an 'uninitiated reader' thinking they're anything less than a woeful embarrassment for our species.
      - bumby 7y ago
        I’m not trying to defend feedlots. Unfortunately I think if we aren’t careful about being accurate people are more likely to write off those opinions as pushing a narrative at the expense of truth, ultimately making good points lose relevance
        Jedd 7y ago
        Okay, so let's agree that cattle that end up in feedlots spend the vast majority of their time in feedlots ... they may have some milk and grass for the first few months of their life, but once they're in feedlots they're on primarily (90%+) grain, with some even more obviously dubious additions making up the other 10%. These are animals that have evolved to digest various grasses, and get sick (to various degrees) when they eat any amount of grains. Feeding them almost (is that okay?) exclusively grains makes them extremely sick - but happily (?) the high-grain diet ensures they put on fat (the bad kind, btw) fast enough that we can slaughter them before they have the opportunity to die from this diet. People that find this acceptable only because they dispute a few percentile of grain quotient in the feed are unlikely to be swayed in any case, I suspect.

by Jedd 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

bumby 7y ago

Just to underscore the reason I felt the need to clarify, I don’t think it’s accurate to claim there are any cattle fed grain for “all” of their life. Like the previous statement about “exclusively grain fed diets”, it’s either needlessly hyperbolic or misleading.

Jedd 7y ago
Okay, I see your point. To weasel out slightly, I did say: " ... beef cattle are fed on grains for most or all of their lives." AIUI, CAFO-destined cattle are moved into feeding lots as soon as they're weaned -- say at a couple of months old. They're mostly on milk, with some grass, up to that point. But from that point on they're on grain-only. You said: > I’m not aware of farms using an “exclusively grain-based diet” and subsequently > My understanding is that these feedlots are where cattle are housed for the last few months to gain weight before slaughter. This doesn't align with my understanding. Once within a CAFO, the cattle stay there until slaughter -- say at age 18 months or less. During that time they're fed exclusively grain, as this ensures maximum growth / minimum time / best ratio of input cost to sale price / etc. Some may be finished on pasture, as this is an increasingly profitable market, plus it drastically reduces pathogens within the animal, and improves the flavour (so I'm told).
- bumby 7y ago
  I think I understand where you’re coming from and I’m willing to bet you understand the nuance but my concern was mainly for the uninitiated reading and drawing too drastic of a conclusion. I think the USDA info I read was that the “typical” cattle are pasture raised for around 4 months before going to a feedlot. Once there, the feed may be as high as 90-95% grain. At that point it almost feels pedantic to claim they are anything but grain fed, but a purely grain diet can cause them to founder like horses on grass as another commenter said.
  - Jedd 7y ago
    Sure, and reading Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma -- which is where I first really got a good insight into these factories -- you'll discover that while corn may not be precisely 100% of the feed, chicken sweepings (manure, feather), peanut shells, fat from other slaughtered cows, etc make up a portion too. CAFOs are objectively horrendous, and I don't want an 'uninitiated reader' thinking they're anything less than a woeful embarrassment for our species.
    - bumby 7y ago
      I’m not trying to defend feedlots. Unfortunately I think if we aren’t careful about being accurate people are more likely to write off those opinions as pushing a narrative at the expense of truth, ultimately making good points lose relevance
      - Jedd 7y ago
        Okay, so let's agree that cattle that end up in feedlots spend the vast majority of their time in feedlots ... they may have some milk and grass for the first few months of their life, but once they're in feedlots they're on primarily (90%+) grain, with some even more obviously dubious additions making up the other 10%. These are animals that have evolved to digest various grasses, and get sick (to various degrees) when they eat any amount of grains. Feeding them almost (is that okay?) exclusively grains makes them extremely sick - but happily (?) the high-grain diet ensures they put on fat (the bad kind, btw) fast enough that we can slaughter them before they have the opportunity to die from this diet. People that find this acceptable only because they dispute a few percentile of grain quotient in the feed are unlikely to be swayed in any case, I suspect.