5 ms·

I think looking at the total rate is naturally going to feel heavy. Instead, consider this: per country on average, that rate is between one every 4 years, and

I think looking at the total rate is naturally going to feel heavy. Instead, consider this: per country on average, that rate is between one every 4 years, and 2 every year, until 2050. That's not bad at all.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Presuming every country has the same ability to pay. Once you get outside the G20, or top 40, you may well be asking the impossible.
- johnmorrison 7y ago
  Of course I don't mean to suggest we should actually split it up by country - it's just a nice mental model that splits by ~40 million person groups.
labawi 7y ago
Depends whether you are China or Vatican. Perhaps a per-capita calculation would be more appropriate: 1/day global = 1/day / 7000·1Mp = 1/20y per 1M people; 5/1y per 100M. USA should do a lot more, Africa can get a pass.
- johnmorrison 7y ago
  > Africa can get a pass. As an African I disagree w/ this. But you're right, global powers like the US/EU/China should and will likely contribute the most.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Having seen the effect of China and India getting a pass in the UN Climate summits -- because of where they were 30 years ago, no one should get a pass. Otherwise it'll be a source of much future regret.
    - johnmorrison 7y ago
      I agree completely. We are all responsible as consumers, in every country. People like to blame the western world or "corporations" - no, it is your (our) fault as individuals. Corporations only emit when consumers demand their product/service. We are all humans: anyone who can help make the future better, should.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        > blame the western world or "corporations" - no, it is your (our) fault as individuals. Hmm, here I diverge. I can demand a long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance (and most products) until I am blue in the face, no corporation is willing to make and sell me one. In fact they're going the opposite way and products are less sustainable, shorter lasting, and subject to far more "fashion" replacement than ever. As companies have become global, and got ever larger the sole focus on profit, particularly that going to the execs has pushed out everything else -- fair pay and working conditions, pensions, long term jobs, environment, local community, etc. We can all do our bit, and should, as far as we're able, but it requires government to regulate to get corporations to all do their bit. Without strong regulation and suitably targeted taxation you get a select few, and an awful lot of greenwashing. Lets also not forget that the vast majority of the current consumer boom and demand for far too much stuff is pushed, via advertising, not pulled, from need. To get you unhappy with your looks, weight, fitness, kitchen, lifestyle, status, status compared to your neighbour, all in the name of selling you an expensive solution, that rarely improves anything, and frequently makes you feel worse.
        johnmorrison 7y ago
        > I can demand a long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance (and most products) until I am blue in the face, no corporation is willing to make and sell me one. I can't tell if this is ideology or a mistake, but this is not true. Firstly, if you demand something that can be reasonably built, somebody will sell it to you for the right price. Remember: corporations are just regular folk trying to make money, like everyone else in modern society. Second, if your argument is "Well, it would be so much more expensive" then this is kind of your own problem, not theirs. Corporations have achieved incredibly affordable production through economies of scale in massive markets. They cater to the demands of large groups of consumers who are willing to pay what it takes for their needs and luxuries. If nobody else wants what you want, nobody will build it for you except you. Claiming that corporations won't make you a 'long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance' means (a) you haven't asked or looked, or (b) you aren't willing to pay for the qualities you demand. > it requires government to regulate to get corporations to all do their bit. I agree with you here. > Lets also not forget ... makes you feel worse. I agree here too - you're right. Advertising is awful, and I don't know what we should do about it, I haven't put enough thought into that issue.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Presuming every country has the same ability to pay. Once you get outside the G20, or top 40, you may well be asking the impossible.

johnmorrison 7y ago
Of course I don't mean to suggest we should actually split it up by country - it's just a nice mental model that splits by ~40 million person groups.

labawi 7y ago

Depends whether you are China or Vatican. Perhaps a per-capita calculation would be more appropriate: 1/day global = 1/day / 7000·1Mp = 1/20y per 1M people; 5/1y per 100M. USA should do a lot more, Africa can get a pass.

johnmorrison 7y ago
> Africa can get a pass. As an African I disagree w/ this. But you're right, global powers like the US/EU/China should and will likely contribute the most.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Having seen the effect of China and India getting a pass in the UN Climate summits -- because of where they were 30 years ago, no one should get a pass. Otherwise it'll be a source of much future regret.
  - johnmorrison 7y ago
    I agree completely. We are all responsible as consumers, in every country. People like to blame the western world or "corporations" - no, it is your (our) fault as individuals. Corporations only emit when consumers demand their product/service. We are all humans: anyone who can help make the future better, should.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      > blame the western world or "corporations" - no, it is your (our) fault as individuals. Hmm, here I diverge. I can demand a long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance (and most products) until I am blue in the face, no corporation is willing to make and sell me one. In fact they're going the opposite way and products are less sustainable, shorter lasting, and subject to far more "fashion" replacement than ever. As companies have become global, and got ever larger the sole focus on profit, particularly that going to the execs has pushed out everything else -- fair pay and working conditions, pensions, long term jobs, environment, local community, etc. We can all do our bit, and should, as far as we're able, but it requires government to regulate to get corporations to all do their bit. Without strong regulation and suitably targeted taxation you get a select few, and an awful lot of greenwashing. Lets also not forget that the vast majority of the current consumer boom and demand for far too much stuff is pushed, via advertising, not pulled, from need. To get you unhappy with your looks, weight, fitness, kitchen, lifestyle, status, status compared to your neighbour, all in the name of selling you an expensive solution, that rarely improves anything, and frequently makes you feel worse.
      - johnmorrison 7y ago
        > I can demand a long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance (and most products) until I am blue in the face, no corporation is willing to make and sell me one. I can't tell if this is ideology or a mistake, but this is not true. Firstly, if you demand something that can be reasonably built, somebody will sell it to you for the right price. Remember: corporations are just regular folk trying to make money, like everyone else in modern society. Second, if your argument is "Well, it would be so much more expensive" then this is kind of your own problem, not theirs. Corporations have achieved incredibly affordable production through economies of scale in massive markets. They cater to the demands of large groups of consumers who are willing to pay what it takes for their needs and luxuries. If nobody else wants what you want, nobody will build it for you except you. Claiming that corporations won't make you a 'long lasting, repairable, sustainable appliance' means (a) you haven't asked or looked, or (b) you aren't willing to pay for the qualities you demand. > it requires government to regulate to get corporations to all do their bit. I agree with you here. > Lets also not forget ... makes you feel worse. I agree here too - you're right. Advertising is awful, and I don't know what we should do about it, I haven't put enough thought into that issue.