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People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. One has to be introduced to the problem first to then ponder and think of a solution. Solutions

People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. One has to be introduced to the problem first to then ponder and think of a solution. Solutions do not exist in vacuums. That is why interaction and “socialization” with problems is so important to inventions, innovations and ultimately progress.

angry_cactus 7y ago
> People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. Many early engineers of the Industrial Revolution were farmers though, such as Jethro Tull.
- fartcannon 7y ago
  To this day, the best engineers I work with are farm people. I think it's because they grow up having to get shit done every day and when that tractor breaks down, you've gotta find a solution or risk falling way behind.
  - kortex 7y ago
    SmarterEveryDay has glowing accolades for farmers [1]. Similarly, the highly-constrained Cubans are notorious matter hackers [2]. My grandfather, and Italian peasant, had the same MacGuyverish attitude towards making stuff keep running long past the point most Americans would have chucked it. I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm. Great for inspiring simple yet clever "shipped is better than perfect" style solutions. Manual labor is also great for Sitatdeskitis. 1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=ywBV6M7VOFU https://youtube.com/watch?v=ywBV6M7VOFU 2] https://oncubanews.com/en/culture/visual-arts/when-in-the-face-of-scarcity-cuban-ingenuity-becomes-art/ https://oncubanews.com/en/culture/visual-arts/when-in-the-fa...
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      "I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm. " I think a lot of devs think they are the only people doing innovative work. But when you look around there are clever solutions everywhere. When I worked closer to metal workshops I was always amazed what stuff people there had come up with to do their job.
    - capableweb 7y ago
      > SmarterEveryDay has glowing accolades for farmers [1]. Seems weird to use a video by SmarterEveryDay as a reference to back up the statement that farmers give accolades to SmarterEveryDay. Who are these farmers who are watching youtube and saying SmarterEveryDay is so great? I'm sure they exist, but that link doesn't seem to justitify that. > I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm Any office worker should have the experience how it is to not work in a office. In fact, everyone should try to have as diverse experience as possible, in order to learn from each angle and perspective and apply the knowledge in other angles and perspectives. One way which can be farm work, but don't limit yourself to just that, lots of other interesting professions.
      - jimktrains2 7y ago
        Gp said "for farmers", not "from Farmers".
        capableweb 7y ago
        True! My bad, seems I misread. Thanks for correcting me!
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    I agree, but I also think that the best engineers I work with are not the best inventors. Good engineers who get distracted and fall behind, preferring to optimize or analyze a problem that's been solved well enough to get shit done make much better inventors. If Eli Whitney had instead built a marginally better set of brushes for slaves to work with and gone on with his day, the story of the cotton gin would be very different.
  - allovernow 7y ago
    No doubt in part because of brain training from tinkering and "hacking" with physical, moderately technical equipment. I feel I've gained similar experience from turning wrenches on personal vehicles since I was a teenager. It's a great activity that teaches discipline and seemingly exercises a certain creative, technical, and systems oriented type of thinking, which is very similar to coding, albeit much less cognitively demanding.
  - bacon_waffle 7y ago
    Same here. About mechanical design - I remember in university noticing how some folks would design things that would be very difficult to construct, where folks who already knew how things were made would do much better. It seems like there's something to having early exposure to shop-stuff, and tooling per capita is bound to be higher in rural areas.
- aswanson 7y ago
  Lol. I thought that was only a band. You learn something every day on hn.
  - notlukesky 7y ago
    I second that!
wizardforhire 7y ago
Henry Ford
Finnucane 7y ago
Plantation owners weren't farmers in the sense that they themselves were actually out working the fields, and since they had set up a system where labor and capital expense were conflated (i.e., labor was treated in the same category as farm animals or machines) they didn't place a priority on 'labor saving' systems until the time and maintenance cost became an issue.
- TomMckenny 7y ago
  This effect can not be over stated. Plantation owners never invented the cotton gin in spite of the vast numbers of them and decades of cotton raising. I suspect there were additional social issues at play as well. For example, plantation owners, being at the top of the social hierarchy have less incentive to invent. Also that tier typically views tinkering and mechanics as lower status and so would avoid it on principle: prestige was based on land size and number of other people owned. Certainly not number of new ideas.
- bsder 7y ago
  In short, steam power. Until you have industrial demand, you don't need industrial supply rates. Prior to the industrial demand, no one cares that cotton takes people too long to process as supply is matched to demand.
bacon_waffle 7y ago
> People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. Do you have any evidence to support the perpetuation of this stereotype?

angry_cactus 7y ago

> People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. Many early engineers of the Industrial Revolution were farmers though, such as Jethro Tull.

fartcannon 7y ago
To this day, the best engineers I work with are farm people. I think it's because they grow up having to get shit done every day and when that tractor breaks down, you've gotta find a solution or risk falling way behind.
- kortex 7y ago
  SmarterEveryDay has glowing accolades for farmers [1]. Similarly, the highly-constrained Cubans are notorious matter hackers [2]. My grandfather, and Italian peasant, had the same MacGuyverish attitude towards making stuff keep running long past the point most Americans would have chucked it. I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm. Great for inspiring simple yet clever "shipped is better than perfect" style solutions. Manual labor is also great for Sitatdeskitis. 1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=ywBV6M7VOFU https://youtube.com/watch?v=ywBV6M7VOFU 2] https://oncubanews.com/en/culture/visual-arts/when-in-the-face-of-scarcity-cuban-ingenuity-becomes-art/ https://oncubanews.com/en/culture/visual-arts/when-in-the-fa...
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    "I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm. " I think a lot of devs think they are the only people doing innovative work. But when you look around there are clever solutions everywhere. When I worked closer to metal workshops I was always amazed what stuff people there had come up with to do their job.
  - capableweb 7y ago
    > SmarterEveryDay has glowing accolades for farmers [1]. Seems weird to use a video by SmarterEveryDay as a reference to back up the statement that farmers give accolades to SmarterEveryDay. Who are these farmers who are watching youtube and saying SmarterEveryDay is so great? I'm sure they exist, but that link doesn't seem to justitify that. > I think all software devs should spend some time on a farm Any office worker should have the experience how it is to not work in a office. In fact, everyone should try to have as diverse experience as possible, in order to learn from each angle and perspective and apply the knowledge in other angles and perspectives. One way which can be farm work, but don't limit yourself to just that, lots of other interesting professions.
    - jimktrains2 7y ago
      Gp said "for farmers", not "from Farmers".
      - capableweb 7y ago
        True! My bad, seems I misread. Thanks for correcting me!
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  I agree, but I also think that the best engineers I work with are not the best inventors. Good engineers who get distracted and fall behind, preferring to optimize or analyze a problem that's been solved well enough to get shit done make much better inventors. If Eli Whitney had instead built a marginally better set of brushes for slaves to work with and gone on with his day, the story of the cotton gin would be very different.
- allovernow 7y ago
  No doubt in part because of brain training from tinkering and "hacking" with physical, moderately technical equipment. I feel I've gained similar experience from turning wrenches on personal vehicles since I was a teenager. It's a great activity that teaches discipline and seemingly exercises a certain creative, technical, and systems oriented type of thinking, which is very similar to coding, albeit much less cognitively demanding.
- bacon_waffle 7y ago
  Same here. About mechanical design - I remember in university noticing how some folks would design things that would be very difficult to construct, where folks who already knew how things were made would do much better. It seems like there's something to having early exposure to shop-stuff, and tooling per capita is bound to be higher in rural areas.
aswanson 7y ago
Lol. I thought that was only a band. You learn something every day on hn.
- notlukesky 7y ago
  I second that!

wizardforhire 7y ago

Henry Ford

Finnucane 7y ago

Plantation owners weren't farmers in the sense that they themselves were actually out working the fields, and since they had set up a system where labor and capital expense were conflated (i.e., labor was treated in the same category as farm animals or machines) they didn't place a priority on 'labor saving' systems until the time and maintenance cost became an issue.

TomMckenny 7y ago
This effect can not be over stated. Plantation owners never invented the cotton gin in spite of the vast numbers of them and decades of cotton raising. I suspect there were additional social issues at play as well. For example, plantation owners, being at the top of the social hierarchy have less incentive to invent. Also that tier typically views tinkering and mechanics as lower status and so would avoid it on principle: prestige was based on land size and number of other people owned. Certainly not number of new ideas.
bsder 7y ago
In short, steam power. Until you have industrial demand, you don't need industrial supply rates. Prior to the industrial demand, no one cares that cotton takes people too long to process as supply is matched to demand.

bacon_waffle 7y ago

> People with engineering mindsets were in urban (non-farm) areas. Do you have any evidence to support the perpetuation of this stereotype?