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OP here. MSL is a new language for representing research and text editing as programming language expressions. Our company's goal is to replace the word process

OP here. MSL is a new language for representing research and text editing as programming language expressions. Our company's goal is to replace the word processor with an improved set of tools based on this language. The history of MSL can be traced from the goals of computer science pioneers going back to the 1940's. These additional documents further explain the development process and goals of the MSL language: Mimix Whitepaper.[0] Explains the historical precedents for moving beyond word processing. Getting to Xanadu.[1] Explains why Nelson's Xanadu did not achieve commercial success. Everything Old Isn't New Again (Yet).[2] Shows previous attempts at moving beyond word processing. Recipes for Research.[3] Explains how a new language could record text editing and fact changes over time. Nebula: Simple and Flexible Apps with (msl) Data. [4] Shows how (msl) applications can be deployed. I welcome your questions, ideas, and suggestions. -- D [0] https://mimix.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mimix-v1.3.pdf https://mimix.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/On-Mimix-v1.3.pd... [1] https://mimix.io/getting-to-xanadu/ https://mimix.io/getting-to-xanadu/ [2] https://mimix.io/retro/ https://mimix.io/retro/ [3] https://mimix.io/recipes/ https://mimix.io/recipes/ [4] https://mimix.io/nebula/ https://mimix.io/nebula/

test9753 7y ago
How does this compare to a wiki[1] ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki
sansnomme 7y ago
This reminds me a lot of the semantic web attempts back in the pre-2010 years. How do you plan to succeed where so many other have failed? Or will this end up as a glorified notetaking app like Notion?
- austincheney 7y ago
  The semantic web ideas failed because the concept required open data integration. Companies don’t like freely exposing their data without branding or proprietary controls.
- davidy123 7y ago
  It didn't "fail." It didn't take off. There are plenty of tendrils of the original ideas remaining, and ultimately its main idea, that information should be relatively typed so it's more precise and reusable, is likely to prevail. The requirements were obviously too much for the web environment of the 2000s, and we're still suffering with startup culture where everyone wants to get rich with a piece of the pie, so guessificial intelligence is pretending to fill the gap, but hopefully all the problems with stopgap approaches will finally make the mainstream switch back to widely intentionally creating information.
  - breck 7y ago
    First, I agree and would also like to say the semantic web idea is roughly 25 years old, which is such a short time period that saying something is dead/failed seems a little silly. Second, I would say the idea is more realistic now than ever. Now we have: - Git so you can cheaply & collaboratively experiment + evolve both data encodings and schemas - Faster, more reliable type checkers and code/data refactoring tools - Deep learning agents that are showing promising gains in question/answering challenges so I can see in the very near feature DLAs coauthoring semantic content alongside humans - As always, more programmers, faster bandwidth, more data, faster computers, etc. I think technology is getting to the point where the semantic web could happen relatively quickly. That being said, I still don't know if it will happen because I now am not sure if there is are strong economics forces that would impede such a thing.
ErotemeObelus 7y ago
This is the greatest project submission on this entire website. Thank God for you.
tasogare 7y ago
I read the first few pages of the language spec and skimmed the whitepaper and I cannot find any compelling use case for the system. Even worst, some ideas presented are actively anti-features. For instance the inclusion of all materials that was read: in theory it looks cool, in practice this is a copyright nightmare. Again, the ability the reply every edit is creepy as hell. As an academic (whose job is thus churning papers), hiding how the sausage was made is a nice property of a PDF. Also, important thing is idea laid out in papers, not the exact stream of text that express them.
- _pmf_ 7y ago
  > I cannot find any compelling use case for the system "Fact checking" is probably the magic word du jour for getting grants and funding.
  - jpalomaki 7y ago
    I would assume many high profile publishers would be concerned in getting the facts right. Especially if working with freelancers, there might be interest to see in more detail the creative process. Just a random example for Google about a case, where journalist had been faking things [1]. Maybe there would be also use in areas like technical writing, rules and regulations or contracts. Having errors in these can actually have big financial consequences. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiegel-journalist-resigns-over-fake-interviews https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiege...
    - _pmf_ 7y ago
      Relotius produced exactly the right facts; they just weren't true.
- Cybiote 7y ago
  It's worth reading Vannevar Bush on the value of associative trails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_We_May_Think#Concept_realization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_We_May_Think#Concept_realiz...
breck 7y ago
I think it's very cool. I didn't inspect it with a fine tooth comb, but did a few searches through the docs and seems promising. (one silly surface level search I do is this: do the words "car" and "cdr" appear? if so I shake my head at the design choice to use a word with much less meaning to pander to academics when there is a better one. happy to see that it does not appear in MSL.) My biggest question of course is this: is there something built with this I can play with? By my count there's been between 493 and 1323 Lisp-ish languages over the past ~60 years (or approximately 10-20 new ones every year), but only a few end up lasting. So my dilemma is I'd prefer to wait and try a product to see if it's really great before evaluating a language.

test9753 7y ago

How does this compare to a wiki[1] ? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

sansnomme 7y ago

This reminds me a lot of the semantic web attempts back in the pre-2010 years. How do you plan to succeed where so many other have failed? Or will this end up as a glorified notetaking app like Notion?

austincheney 7y ago
The semantic web ideas failed because the concept required open data integration. Companies don’t like freely exposing their data without branding or proprietary controls.
davidy123 7y ago
It didn't "fail." It didn't take off. There are plenty of tendrils of the original ideas remaining, and ultimately its main idea, that information should be relatively typed so it's more precise and reusable, is likely to prevail. The requirements were obviously too much for the web environment of the 2000s, and we're still suffering with startup culture where everyone wants to get rich with a piece of the pie, so guessificial intelligence is pretending to fill the gap, but hopefully all the problems with stopgap approaches will finally make the mainstream switch back to widely intentionally creating information.
- breck 7y ago
  First, I agree and would also like to say the semantic web idea is roughly 25 years old, which is such a short time period that saying something is dead/failed seems a little silly. Second, I would say the idea is more realistic now than ever. Now we have: - Git so you can cheaply & collaboratively experiment + evolve both data encodings and schemas - Faster, more reliable type checkers and code/data refactoring tools - Deep learning agents that are showing promising gains in question/answering challenges so I can see in the very near feature DLAs coauthoring semantic content alongside humans - As always, more programmers, faster bandwidth, more data, faster computers, etc. I think technology is getting to the point where the semantic web could happen relatively quickly. That being said, I still don't know if it will happen because I now am not sure if there is are strong economics forces that would impede such a thing.

ErotemeObelus 7y ago

This is the greatest project submission on this entire website. Thank God for you.

tasogare 7y ago

I read the first few pages of the language spec and skimmed the whitepaper and I cannot find any compelling use case for the system. Even worst, some ideas presented are actively anti-features. For instance the inclusion of all materials that was read: in theory it looks cool, in practice this is a copyright nightmare. Again, the ability the reply every edit is creepy as hell. As an academic (whose job is thus churning papers), hiding how the sausage was made is a nice property of a PDF. Also, important thing is idea laid out in papers, not the exact stream of text that express them.

_pmf_ 7y ago
> I cannot find any compelling use case for the system "Fact checking" is probably the magic word du jour for getting grants and funding.
- jpalomaki 7y ago
  I would assume many high profile publishers would be concerned in getting the facts right. Especially if working with freelancers, there might be interest to see in more detail the creative process. Just a random example for Google about a case, where journalist had been faking things [1]. Maybe there would be also use in areas like technical writing, rules and regulations or contracts. Having errors in these can actually have big financial consequences. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiegel-journalist-resigns-over-fake-interviews https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiege...
  - _pmf_ 7y ago
    Relotius produced exactly the right facts; they just weren't true.
Cybiote 7y ago
It's worth reading Vannevar Bush on the value of associative trails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_We_May_Think#Concept_realization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_We_May_Think#Concept_realiz...

breck 7y ago

I think it's very cool. I didn't inspect it with a fine tooth comb, but did a few searches through the docs and seems promising. (one silly surface level search I do is this: do the words "car" and "cdr" appear? if so I shake my head at the design choice to use a word with much less meaning to pander to academics when there is a better one. happy to see that it does not appear in MSL.) My biggest question of course is this: is there something built with this I can play with? By my count there's been between 493 and 1323 Lisp-ish languages over the past ~60 years (or approximately 10-20 new ones every year), but only a few end up lasting. So my dilemma is I'd prefer to wait and try a product to see if it's really great before evaluating a language.