3 ms·

Eating bats is not an inherently Chinese thing to do. This is a case of some people in China who happen to eat bats. It’s actually more offensive to suggest it

by tempsy 7y ago

Eating bats is not an inherently Chinese thing to do. This is a case of some people in China who happen to eat bats. It’s actually more offensive to suggest it is than to defend the practice as “cultural”.

MiroF 7y ago
Curious, I must have missed the part where GP said that eating bats is an "inherently Chinese" thing to do.
- tempsy 7y ago
  > Yes, actually. Can you demonstrate how this actually resulted in the pandemic rather than subtly shaming a cultural practice you don't agree with?
_byed 7y ago
> Eating bats is not an inherently Chinese thing to do. This is a case of some people in China who happen to eat bats. > It’s actually more offensive to suggest it is than to defend the practice as “cultural”. It's worse to read into a statement and reveal your own biases. I never said it was "inherently Chinese." Different cultures eat different foods. Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern. Reading into that and inferring I'm assigning it to a specific culture, that's pretty revealing.
- tempsy 7y ago
  This is a pot calling the kettle black. Someone claimed it was unclear the bat was for human consumption, then someone posted a link of someone Chinese eating a bat, and then you inferred some racist undertone from a comment that was nothing more than a link to the video.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    My thoughts exactly. It's not like the guy came out and said "shithole", and just because he didn't doesn't mean it's okay to just slap a "subtle" modifier on the accusation.
  - jkqwzsoo 7y ago
    > Someone claimed it was unclear the bat was for human consumption, This is you failing to read. The claim was that there was a link between bats being eaten and the disease, which has not been demonstrated. Is it plausible? Sure. It is "suggested" (as was claimed) or "linked" (as was also claimed)? No, that's just speculation.
  - _byed 7y ago
    > inferred some racist undertone Interesting — the revealing commentary continues. There was no mention of race, only that "need I say more?" about a practice that's owned by several cultures is an antagonistic insinuation. You've continually failed the most basic exercise of reading comprehension, so there's no value in me engaging further.
    - tempsy 7y ago
      What culture eats bats? It’s not a Chinese thing. So which ones do?
      - _byed 7y ago
        > What culture eats bats? > It’s not a Chinese thing. So which ones do? Upvote for asking without animosity. I appreciate you. Since you asked, > Bats are a food source for humans in some areas. Bats are consumed in various amounts in Seychelles, Indonesia, Vietnam, Guam, and in some other Asian and Pacific Rim countries and cultures.[1][2][3] In Guam, Mariana fruit bats (Pteropus mariannus) are considered a delicacy,[4][5] and a flying fox bat species was made endangered due to being hunted there.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food
        tempsy 7y ago
        So what is your point? That because a food source is considered by some people to be a delicacy means it’s racist to suggest that eating it is unwise given the public health risk? Foie Gras is banned in CA because it’s produced inhumanly and consider cruel. Is that action a form of racism against French culture?
        _byed 7y ago
        Why do you keep suggesting racism here? Bigotry is the word, but if the food source isn't endangered (some bats are, some aren't) (edit: or produced cruelly, to your point), and if the education exists to safely prepare the food (e.g. cook it thoroughly to avoid pathogens), there's no real reason to dissuade routine consumption other than cultural biases or "ew that's gross," which frankly is the same thing. On the other hand, if the food tends to have high concentrations of compounds or substances that can cause harm with no easy mechanism to remove said compounds (think prions or e.g. mercury), then yes, now you have a substantial concern that justifies dissuading or banning consumption. Tldr: if you're gonna ban people from eating bats at all, do the same for chicken. Undercooked chicken can get you salmonella, live chicken might give you the flu, and you'll never know which bug might just be transmissible person to person, R0 > 1.
- pubby 7y ago
  >Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern. It shouldn't be. Food is a very topical, superficial aspect of culture and the average person has more than enough choice in what they eat. If eating bats is causing serious pandemics, then I'm going to shame eating bats. If shark fin soup is damaging the ecology, then I'm going to shame shark fin soup. If high-sugar diets are resulting in massive health problems, I'm going to shame high-sugar diets.
  - jkqwzsoo 7y ago
    Do you eat beef, or any mass-farmed meats? Crops like almonds or tomatoes? The collection eating of beef does a lot of ecological damage through the destruction of natural habitats for grazing space and cattle feed, as well as the emission of methane into the atmosphere. Do you need to be shamed? Perhaps you would like to shame me?
    - tempsy 7y ago
      I don’t get what your point is. If you’re trying to defend Chinese eating habits the vast majority of Chinese people don’t partake in eating “exotic” meats like bats, live mice, and dogs. Most would be horrified as well.
      - jkqwzsoo 7y ago
        > I don’t get what your point is. I apologize if you found my post unclear. You seem to be reading more into my comments than is there. The commenter above disputed that "Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern." Specifically, it was claimed > It shouldn't be. Food is a very topical, superficial aspect of culture and the average person has more than enough choice in what they eat. > If eating bats is causing serious pandemics, then I'm going to shame eating bats. If shark fin soup is damaging the ecology, then I'm going to shame shark fin soup. If high-sugar diets are resulting in massive health problems, I'm going to shame high-sugar diets. They specifically stated that they would shame people for eating things like bats. They also stated that they would shame people for eating high sugar diets. They implied that anyone who eats a diet or which has a negative impact can be "shamed". Whether that be shark fin soup, or high-fructose corn syrup. I asked whether they apply this standard ("Shaming the choice to eat a food is not a dark pattern") to things that they may do themselves. I'm curious what diet they eat that is free of any judgement. > If you’re trying to defend Chinese eating habits the vast majority of Chinese people don’t partake in eating “exotic” meats like bats, live mice, and dogs. Most would be horrified as well. I haven't said anything at all about these things. I think I've been very specific in the responses I've made, and I have not at any point disputed any of the speculation made about the origin of the virus, nor revealed any judgement I may have, positive or negative, on the matter. Is it possible that the virus originated with the practice of eating bats or other exotic animals? Sure. But I'm not an epidemiologist. I don't have any inside information. I have nothing that would make my opinion on the origin of the disease any more than idle speculation. But, I unlike others, I haven't claimed to know the "probable" origin of the virus.

by tempsy 7y ago

MiroF 7y ago

Curious, I must have missed the part where GP said that eating bats is an "inherently Chinese" thing to do.

tempsy 7y ago
> Yes, actually. Can you demonstrate how this actually resulted in the pandemic rather than subtly shaming a cultural practice you don't agree with?

_byed 7y ago

> Eating bats is not an inherently Chinese thing to do. This is a case of some people in China who happen to eat bats. > It’s actually more offensive to suggest it is than to defend the practice as “cultural”. It's worse to read into a statement and reveal your own biases. I never said it was "inherently Chinese." Different cultures eat different foods. Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern. Reading into that and inferring I'm assigning it to a specific culture, that's pretty revealing.

tempsy 7y ago
This is a pot calling the kettle black. Someone claimed it was unclear the bat was for human consumption, then someone posted a link of someone Chinese eating a bat, and then you inferred some racist undertone from a comment that was nothing more than a link to the video.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  My thoughts exactly. It's not like the guy came out and said "shithole", and just because he didn't doesn't mean it's okay to just slap a "subtle" modifier on the accusation.
- jkqwzsoo 7y ago
  > Someone claimed it was unclear the bat was for human consumption, This is you failing to read. The claim was that there was a link between bats being eaten and the disease, which has not been demonstrated. Is it plausible? Sure. It is "suggested" (as was claimed) or "linked" (as was also claimed)? No, that's just speculation.
- _byed 7y ago
  > inferred some racist undertone Interesting — the revealing commentary continues. There was no mention of race, only that "need I say more?" about a practice that's owned by several cultures is an antagonistic insinuation. You've continually failed the most basic exercise of reading comprehension, so there's no value in me engaging further.
  - tempsy 7y ago
    What culture eats bats? It’s not a Chinese thing. So which ones do?
    - _byed 7y ago
      > What culture eats bats? > It’s not a Chinese thing. So which ones do? Upvote for asking without animosity. I appreciate you. Since you asked, > Bats are a food source for humans in some areas. Bats are consumed in various amounts in Seychelles, Indonesia, Vietnam, Guam, and in some other Asian and Pacific Rim countries and cultures.[1][2][3] In Guam, Mariana fruit bats (Pteropus mariannus) are considered a delicacy,[4][5] and a flying fox bat species was made endangered due to being hunted there.[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food
      - tempsy 7y ago
        So what is your point? That because a food source is considered by some people to be a delicacy means it’s racist to suggest that eating it is unwise given the public health risk? Foie Gras is banned in CA because it’s produced inhumanly and consider cruel. Is that action a form of racism against French culture?
        _byed 7y ago
        Why do you keep suggesting racism here? Bigotry is the word, but if the food source isn't endangered (some bats are, some aren't) (edit: or produced cruelly, to your point), and if the education exists to safely prepare the food (e.g. cook it thoroughly to avoid pathogens), there's no real reason to dissuade routine consumption other than cultural biases or "ew that's gross," which frankly is the same thing. On the other hand, if the food tends to have high concentrations of compounds or substances that can cause harm with no easy mechanism to remove said compounds (think prions or e.g. mercury), then yes, now you have a substantial concern that justifies dissuading or banning consumption. Tldr: if you're gonna ban people from eating bats at all, do the same for chicken. Undercooked chicken can get you salmonella, live chicken might give you the flu, and you'll never know which bug might just be transmissible person to person, R0 > 1.
pubby 7y ago
>Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern. It shouldn't be. Food is a very topical, superficial aspect of culture and the average person has more than enough choice in what they eat. If eating bats is causing serious pandemics, then I'm going to shame eating bats. If shark fin soup is damaging the ecology, then I'm going to shame shark fin soup. If high-sugar diets are resulting in massive health problems, I'm going to shame high-sugar diets.
- jkqwzsoo 7y ago
  Do you eat beef, or any mass-farmed meats? Crops like almonds or tomatoes? The collection eating of beef does a lot of ecological damage through the destruction of natural habitats for grazing space and cattle feed, as well as the emission of methane into the atmosphere. Do you need to be shamed? Perhaps you would like to shame me?
  - tempsy 7y ago
    I don’t get what your point is. If you’re trying to defend Chinese eating habits the vast majority of Chinese people don’t partake in eating “exotic” meats like bats, live mice, and dogs. Most would be horrified as well.
    - jkqwzsoo 7y ago
      > I don’t get what your point is. I apologize if you found my post unclear. You seem to be reading more into my comments than is there. The commenter above disputed that "Shaming the choice to eat a food is a dark pattern." Specifically, it was claimed > It shouldn't be. Food is a very topical, superficial aspect of culture and the average person has more than enough choice in what they eat. > If eating bats is causing serious pandemics, then I'm going to shame eating bats. If shark fin soup is damaging the ecology, then I'm going to shame shark fin soup. If high-sugar diets are resulting in massive health problems, I'm going to shame high-sugar diets. They specifically stated that they would shame people for eating things like bats. They also stated that they would shame people for eating high sugar diets. They implied that anyone who eats a diet or which has a negative impact can be "shamed". Whether that be shark fin soup, or high-fructose corn syrup. I asked whether they apply this standard ("Shaming the choice to eat a food is not a dark pattern") to things that they may do themselves. I'm curious what diet they eat that is free of any judgement. > If you’re trying to defend Chinese eating habits the vast majority of Chinese people don’t partake in eating “exotic” meats like bats, live mice, and dogs. Most would be horrified as well. I haven't said anything at all about these things. I think I've been very specific in the responses I've made, and I have not at any point disputed any of the speculation made about the origin of the virus, nor revealed any judgement I may have, positive or negative, on the matter. Is it possible that the virus originated with the practice of eating bats or other exotic animals? Sure. But I'm not an epidemiologist. I don't have any inside information. I have nothing that would make my opinion on the origin of the disease any more than idle speculation. But, I unlike others, I haven't claimed to know the "probable" origin of the virus.