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Isn't the fact that you regularly have to turn off the flags on these articles a sign that these articles get unnecessarily flagged? And even when you do unflag

by slg 7y ago

Isn't the fact that you regularly have to turn off the flags on these articles a sign that these articles get unnecessarily flagged? And even when you do unflag articles, sometimes it is just too late to rescue. For example, this article was flagged. You unflagged it, but by now it is page 8 instead of number 1 on the front page like it was when I saw it. EDIT: This comment received two downvotes within 3 minutes of me posting. It is a comment buried half way down the comment section on a post that is 8 pages deep on HN. That type of immediate reaction seems strange and as a user it would be helpful to know whether something I said is unfit for this community or if there is some other reason for that reaction. Requiring users explain themselves for this behavior provides some immediate value for me on this comment.

dang 7y ago
It's a sign that moderation mechanisms and user mechanisms sometimes produce different outcomes, which is true of every aspect of HN, and is why moderation is necessary in the first place. I wouldn't draw specific conclusions about gender issues from that. Gender is a well-represented topic on HN, and has been for years. Some people feel it should be more so, some less so; that is also the case for every prominent topic, and doubly so for divisive ones. We didn't unflag this article. We turned off the software penalty called the flamewar detector. There's nothing odd about your comment being downvoted. Other users are still reading this thread just like we are. As for why they downvoted, perhaps they felt you were prosecuting the point in a repetitive way, or that the discussion has gotten too meta. Those things attract downvotes because they quickly get uninteresting.
- slg 7y ago
  You really aren't going to admit that there is any abuse of the flagging system? Either way, at one point this article said [Flagged] in front of it and now it doesn't. Can articles reach that flagged state from purely the flame war detector? I disagree about the gender thing and I'm not the only person to mention that specifically in this comment thread, but I recognize arguing that point isn't going to get us anywhere. My point in that edit was that it is strange to see immediate and strong reaction on a comment that is buried so deeply. There are different expectations for a comment here compared to something on the front page in which many users are likely to see it as soon as it is posted. I have mentioned this to you before, but I think constructive feedback is important if you want people to actually become better community members here. Both you and I are left wondering why my comment received a negative response and I therefore have no direction on how to improve my comments.
- slg 7y ago
  Did my other comment here legitimately get flagged? I am supremely confused by that. I guess you could read that first sentence as rude, but that hardly seems flagging worthy. I also have no idea if that is even the reason it was flagged because flagging requires no justification on HN. Dang, do you see how that flagged comment reinforces my point?
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm afraid I don't. Sure there's abuse of the flagging system; there's abuse of everything. But HN's system as a whole (consisting of community, moderators, and software) has countervailing mechanisms for that and other abuses. The example you raised, of threads about women and gender issues, shows this very much, since those not only do not "always get flagged" as you claimed, but just the opposite: it is one of the more prominent topics on HN, as I've explained. Beyond that, I'm not sure what your point is, other than to complain about downvotes and flags, which is a discussion that gets increasingly repetitive and tedious, which is no doubt why the posts attracted further downvotes and flags. For sure it sucks to see one's comments downvoted or flagged. The best response to this is to reflect on what in your comment might have led to that. Usually it's not so hard to see this if you're willing to look objectively. If you do see something, that's good learning for next time. If you don't, chalk it up to the quirks of other users and move on—it's priced in for everybody, and focusing on it further (e.g. by demanding reasons) is a poor use of energy and an especially poor direction for further discussion.

by slg 7y ago

dang 7y ago

It's a sign that moderation mechanisms and user mechanisms sometimes produce different outcomes, which is true of every aspect of HN, and is why moderation is necessary in the first place. I wouldn't draw specific conclusions about gender issues from that. Gender is a well-represented topic on HN, and has been for years. Some people feel it should be more so, some less so; that is also the case for every prominent topic, and doubly so for divisive ones. We didn't unflag this article. We turned off the software penalty called the flamewar detector. There's nothing odd about your comment being downvoted. Other users are still reading this thread just like we are. As for why they downvoted, perhaps they felt you were prosecuting the point in a repetitive way, or that the discussion has gotten too meta. Those things attract downvotes because they quickly get uninteresting.

slg 7y ago
You really aren't going to admit that there is any abuse of the flagging system? Either way, at one point this article said [Flagged] in front of it and now it doesn't. Can articles reach that flagged state from purely the flame war detector? I disagree about the gender thing and I'm not the only person to mention that specifically in this comment thread, but I recognize arguing that point isn't going to get us anywhere. My point in that edit was that it is strange to see immediate and strong reaction on a comment that is buried so deeply. There are different expectations for a comment here compared to something on the front page in which many users are likely to see it as soon as it is posted. I have mentioned this to you before, but I think constructive feedback is important if you want people to actually become better community members here. Both you and I are left wondering why my comment received a negative response and I therefore have no direction on how to improve my comments.
slg 7y ago
Did my other comment here legitimately get flagged? I am supremely confused by that. I guess you could read that first sentence as rude, but that hardly seems flagging worthy. I also have no idea if that is even the reason it was flagged because flagging requires no justification on HN. Dang, do you see how that flagged comment reinforces my point?
- dang 7y ago
  I'm afraid I don't. Sure there's abuse of the flagging system; there's abuse of everything. But HN's system as a whole (consisting of community, moderators, and software) has countervailing mechanisms for that and other abuses. The example you raised, of threads about women and gender issues, shows this very much, since those not only do not "always get flagged" as you claimed, but just the opposite: it is one of the more prominent topics on HN, as I've explained. Beyond that, I'm not sure what your point is, other than to complain about downvotes and flags, which is a discussion that gets increasingly repetitive and tedious, which is no doubt why the posts attracted further downvotes and flags. For sure it sucks to see one's comments downvoted or flagged. The best response to this is to reflect on what in your comment might have led to that. Usually it's not so hard to see this if you're willing to look objectively. If you do see something, that's good learning for next time. If you don't, chalk it up to the quirks of other users and move on—it's priced in for everybody, and focusing on it further (e.g. by demanding reasons) is a poor use of energy and an especially poor direction for further discussion.