5 ms·

I'd be interested in seeing those who are downvoting this comment refute its claims instead.

abc-xyz 7y ago
Quote from another HN thread comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22137131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22137131): > I was born and raised in Wuhan. My father and a few friends are still in Wuhan, one of the friend is a nurse. Here's what they told me: > * The hospitals in Wuhan are at absolute maximum capacity. they are lumping any fever cases (e.g. flu) patients with potential coronavirus patients in the same room. > * People with mild symptoms are sent home due to capacity, they are instructed to be quarantined at home unless symptoms get worse > * Despite reports, surgical masks are completely sold out in China, my dad is asking me to send him 3M (the brand) masks from abroad. > * Even hospitals are low on surgical masks for staff. Each nurse is given one or two masks per day, but per regulation, they needed to replace the mask every 3 hours. > * A wider scale locked down went in to effect in Wuhan this morning, forbidding anybody from entering or leaving on any roads, rail, water or flight. > * Domestic news are filled with non-sense, top 3 news today are praising Xi's CNY speech, which has exactly zero word mentioning the pandemic or Wuhan. > * This coronavirus is potentially deadlier than SARS. Most of the 25 deaths are from the original 47 cases that was reported a few weeks ago. Compilation of various footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv_ScEYMQ0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv_ScEYMQ0s of people collapsing on the streets and a doctor freaking out. [Nurse estimating 90.000 infected](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQflXs0jZ9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQflXs0jZ9w), scolding the government, giving advice how to stay safe and encouraging people to donate disposable masks, goggles and clothes. [Nurse estimating 100.000 infected](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/etnc6g/hear_it_urself/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/etnc6g/hear_it_ursel...), the 10 doctors at her hospital treating more than 100 infected people per day, scolding government for false promises and lack of support, warning people not to trust anything the government says. FYI, I've known a few nurses in Asian countries, including China, and it's extremely common for them to build a close relationship. I know in Thailand they're required to learn the names of all their seniors and form a bond with them, and will often have large group chats with former classmates and coworkers. A nurse I know in Thailand told me that she would no doubt know what the situation was like at her hospital (number of patients, workload of doctors, medical supplies), and she still keep touch with over a hundred different nurses working at other hospitals and nurseries, from whom she would be able to gather similar information. I imagine the situation is the same in China, and when we see two nurses (with Wuhan accents) give similar estimates, then I'd no doubt trust those numbers more than those of the government, especially considering the significant amount of videos of people collapsing and lying dead on the ground, as well as the fact that the government has expanded the lockdown to 56 million people, and shut down 70.000 cinemas all over the country. The government spent several weeks suppressing critical information and arresting those who tried to warn others. Even now information is still being censored and people in China are not taking necessary precautions to protect themselves.
- FooBarWidget 7y ago
  > and people in China are not taking necessary precautions to protect themselves. Aren't they? News about the virus is all over Chinese social media. My relatives in China -- who live quite far away from Wuhan -- are following the news and closely, and have decided to stay home as much as possible.
  - abc-xyz 7y ago
    People only recently began to talk about the virus on social media - at least in my circles. I imagine your relatives also just recently began to stay and eat at home as much as possible, and probably didn't pay too much attention to wearing proper disposable masks, using hand sanitizers whenever possible, keeping distance from people coughing or showing fever symptoms, etc. It's also just a few days ago the government began sending doctors and nurses to Wuhan en masse, despite the fact that the medical workers in Wuhan have been completely overwhelmed, and that we've known about the virus for over a month. It's also very few people who realize the severity; many still go to crowded places and don't wear proper protection. Several friends have reached out to me for videos (some of which are shadowbanned on WeChat) and news since the amount of information shared is heavily censored in China. Even had a Tsinghua friend refer to some of the videos I posted as 'fake news'. You also have Tsai Ing-wen asking China to share truthful information about the virus and for WHO not to exclude Taiwan from collaboration on the outbreak for political reasons. It's just now that people are beginning to realize the severity of the situation. In Bangkok the hospitals (at least one of those a nurse I know is working at) are checking everyone before they're allowed to enter the hospital.
- sgc 7y ago
  How do we know that 25 dead are from the original 47? If that is true, it is by far the most devastating number.
  - abc-xyz 7y ago
    I'm not sure, this is the only list with detailed info I can find: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itaohdPiAeniCXNlntNztZ_oRvjh0HsGuJXUJWET008/htmlview# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itaohdPiAeniCXNlntNz..., but even that list is severely lacking in information, and seem to rely on official reports that have proven untrustworthy. I imagine the person I quoted got the information from his nurse friend/family in Wuhan. Official numbers (2020 confirmed cases, 100 deaths and 49 recoveries as of right now) also seem very worrisome. That's a 20% death rate without taking into account that we still don't know the outcome of the remaining 1871 confirmed cases that has neither died nor recovered. An optimistic person might say that confirmed cases primarily consist of those showing the most significant symptoms since everyone else would be sent away as there's not enough room at the hospitals. A pessimistic person might say that the government has proven completely untrustworthy and incapable, that the number is much more likely to be ~100.000 as reported by the two nurses, and looking at the many mental breakdowns of medical workers, videos of people collapsing or seemingly lying dead on the ground, the fact that the virus has already spread to numerous countries and throughout all provinces in China, as well as the lockdowns all over the country, then there are reasons to believe the number of infections and deaths are severely under-reported by the government.
LegitShady 7y ago
What can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. There was no argument in that post to disprove just baseless claims without evidence. Why would someone spend 10x as much time disproving a no effort no evidence post? the onus is on the downvoted poster to support their own claims.

Quote from another HN thread comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22137131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22137131): > I was born and raised in Wuhan. My father and a few friends are still in Wuhan, one of the friend is a nurse. Here's what they told me: > * The hospitals in Wuhan are at absolute maximum capacity. they are lumping any fever cases (e.g. flu) patients with potential coronavirus patients in the same room. > * People with mild symptoms are sent home due to capacity, they are instructed to be quarantined at home unless symptoms get worse > * Despite reports, surgical masks are completely sold out in China, my dad is asking me to send him 3M (the brand) masks from abroad. > * Even hospitals are low on surgical masks for staff. Each nurse is given one or two masks per day, but per regulation, they needed to replace the mask every 3 hours. > * A wider scale locked down went in to effect in Wuhan this morning, forbidding anybody from entering or leaving on any roads, rail, water or flight. > * Domestic news are filled with non-sense, top 3 news today are praising Xi's CNY speech, which has exactly zero word mentioning the pandemic or Wuhan. > * This coronavirus is potentially deadlier than SARS. Most of the 25 deaths are from the original 47 cases that was reported a few weeks ago. Compilation of various footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv_ScEYMQ0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv_ScEYMQ0s of people collapsing on the streets and a doctor freaking out. [Nurse estimating 90.000 infected](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQflXs0jZ9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQflXs0jZ9w), scolding the government, giving advice how to stay safe and encouraging people to donate disposable masks, goggles and clothes. [Nurse estimating 100.000 infected](https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/etnc6g/hear_it_urself/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/etnc6g/hear_it_ursel...), the 10 doctors at her hospital treating more than 100 infected people per day, scolding government for false promises and lack of support, warning people not to trust anything the government says. FYI, I've known a few nurses in Asian countries, including China, and it's extremely common for them to build a close relationship. I know in Thailand they're required to learn the names of all their seniors and form a bond with them, and will often have large group chats with former classmates and coworkers. A nurse I know in Thailand told me that she would no doubt know what the situation was like at her hospital (number of patients, workload of doctors, medical supplies), and she still keep touch with over a hundred different nurses working at other hospitals and nurseries, from whom she would be able to gather similar information. I imagine the situation is the same in China, and when we see two nurses (with Wuhan accents) give similar estimates, then I'd no doubt trust those numbers more than those of the government, especially considering the significant amount of videos of people collapsing and lying dead on the ground, as well as the fact that the government has expanded the lockdown to 56 million people, and shut down 70.000 cinemas all over the country. The government spent several weeks suppressing critical information and arresting those who tried to warn others. Even now information is still being censored and people in China are not taking necessary precautions to protect themselves.

FooBarWidget 7y ago
> and people in China are not taking necessary precautions to protect themselves. Aren't they? News about the virus is all over Chinese social media. My relatives in China -- who live quite far away from Wuhan -- are following the news and closely, and have decided to stay home as much as possible.
- abc-xyz 7y ago
  People only recently began to talk about the virus on social media - at least in my circles. I imagine your relatives also just recently began to stay and eat at home as much as possible, and probably didn't pay too much attention to wearing proper disposable masks, using hand sanitizers whenever possible, keeping distance from people coughing or showing fever symptoms, etc. It's also just a few days ago the government began sending doctors and nurses to Wuhan en masse, despite the fact that the medical workers in Wuhan have been completely overwhelmed, and that we've known about the virus for over a month. It's also very few people who realize the severity; many still go to crowded places and don't wear proper protection. Several friends have reached out to me for videos (some of which are shadowbanned on WeChat) and news since the amount of information shared is heavily censored in China. Even had a Tsinghua friend refer to some of the videos I posted as 'fake news'. You also have Tsai Ing-wen asking China to share truthful information about the virus and for WHO not to exclude Taiwan from collaboration on the outbreak for political reasons. It's just now that people are beginning to realize the severity of the situation. In Bangkok the hospitals (at least one of those a nurse I know is working at) are checking everyone before they're allowed to enter the hospital.
sgc 7y ago
How do we know that 25 dead are from the original 47? If that is true, it is by far the most devastating number.
- abc-xyz 7y ago
  I'm not sure, this is the only list with detailed info I can find: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itaohdPiAeniCXNlntNztZ_oRvjh0HsGuJXUJWET008/htmlview# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1itaohdPiAeniCXNlntNz..., but even that list is severely lacking in information, and seem to rely on official reports that have proven untrustworthy. I imagine the person I quoted got the information from his nurse friend/family in Wuhan. Official numbers (2020 confirmed cases, 100 deaths and 49 recoveries as of right now) also seem very worrisome. That's a 20% death rate without taking into account that we still don't know the outcome of the remaining 1871 confirmed cases that has neither died nor recovered. An optimistic person might say that confirmed cases primarily consist of those showing the most significant symptoms since everyone else would be sent away as there's not enough room at the hospitals. A pessimistic person might say that the government has proven completely untrustworthy and incapable, that the number is much more likely to be ~100.000 as reported by the two nurses, and looking at the many mental breakdowns of medical workers, videos of people collapsing or seemingly lying dead on the ground, the fact that the virus has already spread to numerous countries and throughout all provinces in China, as well as the lockdowns all over the country, then there are reasons to believe the number of infections and deaths are severely under-reported by the government.

LegitShady 7y ago

What can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. There was no argument in that post to disprove just baseless claims without evidence. Why would someone spend 10x as much time disproving a no effort no evidence post? the onus is on the downvoted poster to support their own claims.