4 ms·

The irony in using the "Do Not Track" attribute to track users is delicious.

by michaelhoffman 7y ago

fragsworth 7y ago
I appreciate that you pointed this out, I would have missed it. Brilliant and terrible.
hanniabu 7y ago
Mind expanding on this? Where can I learn more about this attribute?
- alangpierce 7y ago
  It was an attempt at standardizing a browser setting to opt out of tracking, but it was ultimately unsuccessful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track
  - cpeterso 7y ago
    Apple even removed Do Not Track option from Safari last year: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_notes/safari_12_1_release_notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_not...
OrgNet 7y ago
I think that I am still going to keep it enabled, as a matter of principles.
Nursie 7y ago
That flag was hilarious and pointless from day 1. So we're going to ask the profit-motivated bad-actors across the web to pretty-please exempt us from your tracking because we asked nicely? And we need to hide this away in settings and have it default-off because otherwise how will they know we really meant it? It's like it was designed by someone with an early 90s understanding of the web, and no comprehension whatsoever of just how awful marketing can be. Tracking should never be opt-out in the first place, and it needs to be fought with technological and legal measures, not silly http request flags.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  It achieved something: it serves as evidence that companies absolutely need to be beaten into submission with heavy-handed regulation of data collection, because they can't play nice on their own.
  - oehpr 7y ago
    Honestly, I had always suspected a long term game like this was the actual intent. The EFF wants to say "SEE? They can't claim ignorance, they know people's intent and they're depraved in their indifference!". No one earnestly believed this would directly enhance privacy. But frankly, all of this is just trying to negotiate with black hats. Any company actually acquiescing to rules for privacy will find themselves out-bid by companies who can claim they have better data by operating outside the law. These protocols are using the general public's privacy as sacrificial fuel to accomplish their impossible aims. It's a whole lot of wasted effort. I wish the EFF would figure this out, It's impossible to law away a technological reality.
- snicky 7y ago
  From what I understand GDPR was supposed to guarantee opt-out by default and this is widely adopted. Instead of having stupid popups on every single website asking us to agree to their tracking policies, wouldn't it make more sense to enforce a law that says they should respect the setting expressed in the header and users must not be bothered?
  - Nursie 7y ago
    I think we'll probably see a wave of enforcement actions at some point that address some of this stuff. There are still companies that hide the opt-outs in places I can't find after a lot of poking around (Oath, I'm looking at you), and a lot who will make the 'no tracking' button on their pop-up small and greyed out, and then ask you to confirm it using weird language like a link saying "Leave" that actually takes you back to what you were trying to read.
saghm 7y ago
This makes me curious; has anyone tried making an extension to randomly choose for each request whether or not to send "Do Not Track"? There are probably a lot of other settings that similarly don't affect the page in any visible way that could also be randomized as well. I doubt I'm the first person to think of this!
- throwaway41597 7y ago
  Unless everyone was doing this, it'd be worse as you'd be in the few who have this extension (which sounds like it can trivially be tested by a webpage making a couple of requests). Better remove the DNT header from this point of view.

The irony in using the "Do Not Track" attribute to track users is delicious.

fragsworth 7y ago

I appreciate that you pointed this out, I would have missed it. Brilliant and terrible.

hanniabu 7y ago

Mind expanding on this? Where can I learn more about this attribute?

alangpierce 7y ago
It was an attempt at standardizing a browser setting to opt out of tracking, but it was ultimately unsuccessful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Track
- cpeterso 7y ago
  Apple even removed Do Not Track option from Safari last year: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_notes/safari_12_1_release_notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_not...

OrgNet 7y ago

I think that I am still going to keep it enabled, as a matter of principles.

Nursie 7y ago

That flag was hilarious and pointless from day 1. So we're going to ask the profit-motivated bad-actors across the web to pretty-please exempt us from your tracking because we asked nicely? And we need to hide this away in settings and have it default-off because otherwise how will they know we really meant it? It's like it was designed by someone with an early 90s understanding of the web, and no comprehension whatsoever of just how awful marketing can be. Tracking should never be opt-out in the first place, and it needs to be fought with technological and legal measures, not silly http request flags.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
It achieved something: it serves as evidence that companies absolutely need to be beaten into submission with heavy-handed regulation of data collection, because they can't play nice on their own.
- oehpr 7y ago
  Honestly, I had always suspected a long term game like this was the actual intent. The EFF wants to say "SEE? They can't claim ignorance, they know people's intent and they're depraved in their indifference!". No one earnestly believed this would directly enhance privacy. But frankly, all of this is just trying to negotiate with black hats. Any company actually acquiescing to rules for privacy will find themselves out-bid by companies who can claim they have better data by operating outside the law. These protocols are using the general public's privacy as sacrificial fuel to accomplish their impossible aims. It's a whole lot of wasted effort. I wish the EFF would figure this out, It's impossible to law away a technological reality.
snicky 7y ago
From what I understand GDPR was supposed to guarantee opt-out by default and this is widely adopted. Instead of having stupid popups on every single website asking us to agree to their tracking policies, wouldn't it make more sense to enforce a law that says they should respect the setting expressed in the header and users must not be bothered?
- Nursie 7y ago
  I think we'll probably see a wave of enforcement actions at some point that address some of this stuff. There are still companies that hide the opt-outs in places I can't find after a lot of poking around (Oath, I'm looking at you), and a lot who will make the 'no tracking' button on their pop-up small and greyed out, and then ask you to confirm it using weird language like a link saying "Leave" that actually takes you back to what you were trying to read.

saghm 7y ago

This makes me curious; has anyone tried making an extension to randomly choose for each request whether or not to send "Do Not Track"? There are probably a lot of other settings that similarly don't affect the page in any visible way that could also be randomized as well. I doubt I'm the first person to think of this!

throwaway41597 7y ago
Unless everyone was doing this, it'd be worse as you'd be in the few who have this extension (which sounds like it can trivially be tested by a webpage making a couple of requests). Better remove the DNT header from this point of view.