2 ms·

"As for speaking English as a second language: Stating up front "please forgive my English" seems to work pretty well to smooth things over for some members her

by jarek 16y ago

"As for speaking English as a second language: Stating up front "please forgive my English" seems to work pretty well to smooth things over for some members here." This isn't my discussion and so I apologize for potentially butting in, but being an ESL speaker myself it bothers me a bit to see ESL writers apologize for their English. I'm not sure if this is unique to those who are ESL themselves, but I find distinguishing between an ESL writer and a sloppy native writer trivial. If it's at a point where it causes problems communicating, we'll know it's because English isn't your first language, and we know the writer would rather not make these mistakes - no need to apologize. As for conveying sarcasm in short posts on the internet, the difficulty is far from limited to ESL writers.

Mz 16y ago
Some people here are quite anal about grammar and spelling and do not seem to readily infer that someone is an ESL speaker. I come from a bicultural/bilingual home. English is my native language but I also am prone to imposing German-isms (for lack of a better word) onto my writing, especially when tired. I do this in spite of not growing up knowing much German. I'm generally pretty tolerant of individual quirks and of the acclimation process new people go through. Lots of people are not. I basically agree with you that they shouldn't need to apologize/explain but in some instances it does seem to help smooth things over. Peace.
mcantor 16y ago
... being an ESL speaker myself... I appreciate the "please forgive my English" notes, actually. I am a native English speaker, and I have no ability whatsoever to distinguish between ESL writers and sloppy natives. I certainly was not aware that frevd was not a native speaker until he mentioned it.
- frevd 16y ago
  Well.. wow, I take that as a compliment. I should definitely read more HN comments though, to improve on my writing style (sorry, I got all my early English from coding and the rest from chats &c. (barely speaking a word even today), and those sources are undoubtedly not the best pool for poetry). I must say that many people here are surely right what serious contribution is about, i.e. involving serious commitment, not sloppiness, which certainly improves on content quality. However, if that scares away those of us who merely wanted to point out something without having the time for a proper pronounciation (especially non-natives), less a proof, it would be sad to lose their opinions. Unproven Intuitions and fun statements must be allowed as well, otherwise you'd lose some important flow here, and who can say what might inspire others, effectively. Prohibiting smileys and alike or limiting types of expressions through forced writing style can even mean worse, being contraproductive for the overall content submission. But surely there are better places for instant-talk.

by jarek 16y ago

Mz 16y ago

Some people here are quite anal about grammar and spelling and do not seem to readily infer that someone is an ESL speaker. I come from a bicultural/bilingual home. English is my native language but I also am prone to imposing German-isms (for lack of a better word) onto my writing, especially when tired. I do this in spite of not growing up knowing much German. I'm generally pretty tolerant of individual quirks and of the acclimation process new people go through. Lots of people are not. I basically agree with you that they shouldn't need to apologize/explain but in some instances it does seem to help smooth things over. Peace.

mcantor 16y ago

... being an ESL speaker myself... I appreciate the "please forgive my English" notes, actually. I am a native English speaker, and I have no ability whatsoever to distinguish between ESL writers and sloppy natives. I certainly was not aware that frevd was not a native speaker until he mentioned it.

frevd 16y ago
Well.. wow, I take that as a compliment. I should definitely read more HN comments though, to improve on my writing style (sorry, I got all my early English from coding and the rest from chats &c. (barely speaking a word even today), and those sources are undoubtedly not the best pool for poetry). I must say that many people here are surely right what serious contribution is about, i.e. involving serious commitment, not sloppiness, which certainly improves on content quality. However, if that scares away those of us who merely wanted to point out something without having the time for a proper pronounciation (especially non-natives), less a proof, it would be sad to lose their opinions. Unproven Intuitions and fun statements must be allowed as well, otherwise you'd lose some important flow here, and who can say what might inspire others, effectively. Prohibiting smileys and alike or limiting types of expressions through forced writing style can even mean worse, being contraproductive for the overall content submission. But surely there are better places for instant-talk.