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Bathrooms are also a high margin item for homebuilders. Adding the rough-in plumbing for another bathroom takes minimal labor while a house is still being built

Bathrooms are also a high margin item for homebuilders. Adding the rough-in plumbing for another bathroom takes minimal labor while a house is still being built, and builder-grade fixtures can probably be had for under $1000. But because adding plumbing is an absolute pain in the ass after the house is built, and because the real estate industry has "more bathrooms = higher resale" programmed deep within its fabric, builders can charge several thousand dollars for them as an upgrade.

unishark 7y ago
A big part of that cost is probably permits (and costs of compliance with new rules). I know someone (a do-it-yourselfer) who added a bathroom to their house in california and it required multiple inspections at various stages of construction. I know another person in the same city who has added bathrooms to houses he rents out and I'm fairly sure he doesn't bother with permits or inspections and his costs are minimal, getting a closet converted in a weekend.
- officialchicken 7y ago
  A review before you begin, and independent reviews of the all the systems you hack by specialists of those systems - before you make it so you can't see anything - and followed by a final review stating the work was done correctly (for insurance) is the complaint? It seems your friend looked at the cost of a toilet and tile and thought in Home Depot, "I can do this," not realizing the TCO.
  - unishark 7y ago
    Well in defense of my friend, he is a mechanical engineer and certainly could do it, and did. He added an entire master bedroom and bath to an old house, doing most of the interior stuff himself. However some of the hoops he had to jump through were pretty silly. I'm sure there was plenty of regulatory capture by builders and contractors.
  - LyndsySimon 7y ago
    California is stereotyped as being the most burdensome when it comes to this sort of thing. I don’t know if that’s warranted, but it does seem so when hearing from people who live in urban areas who have dealt with this. On the other hand, I live in a “city” in Arkansas. According to the municipal code here, most residential electrical and plumbing work can be done by the owner of the property without obtaining a permit beforehand. While the code requires that the work be inspected prior to closure - e.g., we’re supposed to have electrical work inspected before subflooring is laid or drywall is hung - my experience is that it’s not only not required, they don’t even have a process in place to meet that requirement. My home was damaged by a fire a few years before I purchased it. In fact, that was one of the reasons I bought it; while the home was built in the late 1960, all of the electrical and almost all of the plumbing was stripped out and redone in ~2008. That work was inspected... and it was very bad work, honestly. Since buying the home I’ve reinstalled every outlet (properly) and re-run about 1/3 of the Romex in the walls and below the house. I spoke with the city inspector and he was incredulous when I asked when he’d be available to come look at it - he advised me that there was no such requirement unless I had paid someone to do it. He said he’d never had someone ask him to inspect work done by the homeowner. After a few minutes’ discussion at his office about what I had changed and why, his answer? “You obviously know what you’re doing, so you don’t need me to come out. If you want me to file an inspection certificate I will based on your word, but it’s not worth my time to drive out to your house to look at it. Don’t worry about it.” Outside the municipal limits, to my knowledge there is no requirement at all for inspection. Furthermore, my homeowner’s insurance specifically allows for improvements made by the homeowner so long as they “comply with applicable local codes and regulations”. In my case that means a document that I had to track down and modify for my situation, the inspector signed without ever having visited the property, and I had to physically take to the city clerk. If my home were 100 yards further South (and therefore outside city limits) there would be no documentation required at all. So, in short... for a lot of the country, the TCO of a new toilet is the cost of the toilet. Maybe the cost of a new wax ring as well if the homeowner is experienced enough to realize that the old one is going to fail eventually if they re-use it, so they go ahead and buy a new one at the same time.
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > I know another person in the same city who has added bathrooms to houses he rents out and I'm fairly sure he doesn't bother with permits or inspections and his costs are minimal, getting a closet converted in a weekend. I'm sure his insurance company loves him. As will any future owners of his buildings. There are many competent DIYers, but there are many more who are not. For some, code is simply a suggestion or goal to strive to reach (eventually).

unishark 7y ago

A big part of that cost is probably permits (and costs of compliance with new rules). I know someone (a do-it-yourselfer) who added a bathroom to their house in california and it required multiple inspections at various stages of construction. I know another person in the same city who has added bathrooms to houses he rents out and I'm fairly sure he doesn't bother with permits or inspections and his costs are minimal, getting a closet converted in a weekend.

officialchicken 7y ago
A review before you begin, and independent reviews of the all the systems you hack by specialists of those systems - before you make it so you can't see anything - and followed by a final review stating the work was done correctly (for insurance) is the complaint? It seems your friend looked at the cost of a toilet and tile and thought in Home Depot, "I can do this," not realizing the TCO.
- unishark 7y ago
  Well in defense of my friend, he is a mechanical engineer and certainly could do it, and did. He added an entire master bedroom and bath to an old house, doing most of the interior stuff himself. However some of the hoops he had to jump through were pretty silly. I'm sure there was plenty of regulatory capture by builders and contractors.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  California is stereotyped as being the most burdensome when it comes to this sort of thing. I don’t know if that’s warranted, but it does seem so when hearing from people who live in urban areas who have dealt with this. On the other hand, I live in a “city” in Arkansas. According to the municipal code here, most residential electrical and plumbing work can be done by the owner of the property without obtaining a permit beforehand. While the code requires that the work be inspected prior to closure - e.g., we’re supposed to have electrical work inspected before subflooring is laid or drywall is hung - my experience is that it’s not only not required, they don’t even have a process in place to meet that requirement. My home was damaged by a fire a few years before I purchased it. In fact, that was one of the reasons I bought it; while the home was built in the late 1960, all of the electrical and almost all of the plumbing was stripped out and redone in ~2008. That work was inspected... and it was very bad work, honestly. Since buying the home I’ve reinstalled every outlet (properly) and re-run about 1/3 of the Romex in the walls and below the house. I spoke with the city inspector and he was incredulous when I asked when he’d be available to come look at it - he advised me that there was no such requirement unless I had paid someone to do it. He said he’d never had someone ask him to inspect work done by the homeowner. After a few minutes’ discussion at his office about what I had changed and why, his answer? “You obviously know what you’re doing, so you don’t need me to come out. If you want me to file an inspection certificate I will based on your word, but it’s not worth my time to drive out to your house to look at it. Don’t worry about it.” Outside the municipal limits, to my knowledge there is no requirement at all for inspection. Furthermore, my homeowner’s insurance specifically allows for improvements made by the homeowner so long as they “comply with applicable local codes and regulations”. In my case that means a document that I had to track down and modify for my situation, the inspector signed without ever having visited the property, and I had to physically take to the city clerk. If my home were 100 yards further South (and therefore outside city limits) there would be no documentation required at all. So, in short... for a lot of the country, the TCO of a new toilet is the cost of the toilet. Maybe the cost of a new wax ring as well if the homeowner is experienced enough to realize that the old one is going to fail eventually if they re-use it, so they go ahead and buy a new one at the same time.
throw0101a 7y ago
> I know another person in the same city who has added bathrooms to houses he rents out and I'm fairly sure he doesn't bother with permits or inspections and his costs are minimal, getting a closet converted in a weekend. I'm sure his insurance company loves him. As will any future owners of his buildings. There are many competent DIYers, but there are many more who are not. For some, code is simply a suggestion or goal to strive to reach (eventually).