6 ms·

What do you do? Start growing all of your vegetables in your backyard, and order what you must with a fake identity from behind a proxy online? I was going to

What do you do? Start growing all of your vegetables in your backyard, and order what you must with a fake identity from behind a proxy online? I was going to question if we'd reached the point where it is not only impossible to avoid handing over intimate identifiable data, but necessary to participate in society - and I realized that we probably passed that threshold a few years ago, although this does make things seemingly worse. I wonder how long before they'll ban adversarial masks or hats in the name of safety or some other such nonsense...

root_axis 7y ago
Boycott and protest, name and shame.
GordonS 7y ago
When ordering the fake ID, you'd need some kind of method that allowed the buyer to remain anonymous - I guess there are a few crypo currencies that fit the bill. You'd also need to get the fake ID delivered somewhere other than your home, so it couldn't be trivially tied back to you.
- jlgaddis 7y ago
  > ... so it couldn't be trivially tied back to you. Except that a fake ID will have your picture on it.
nocturnial 7y ago
> What do you do? First ask them why they need this system. If it's reasonable then implement rules and laws so it can only be used for this specific purpose. If the reason for installing it is to prevent theft then they shouldn't have any problems with rules limiting them to this one specific usage and a fine if they used it for anything else (eg. marketing). We can also make up rules where it is acceptable to use it for marketing (informed consent being the bare minimum). These things, like face recognition of customers, have a tendency of spinning out of control. They say they originally used it for purpose X but because they have the data... Why not use it for purpose Y and Z?
Frost1x 7y ago
The free market will fix this (chuckles). In all seriousness, it does open a business opportunity to create proxies to do your shopping for you, essentially hiding your identity through third parties. I don't think that's the real solution. We need to legislate these issues. Years ago these were clearly possible options. It's only a matter of time before we start to see dynamic pricing based on identity as well. Consumers need to stop allowing these practices to happen. Spend more and shop at smaller shops if you have to. Elect people who will stop letting corporate greed interests take over at the detriment of our shared society and living conditions.
- neuralRiot 7y ago
  The irony os that it does not prevent theft or how do you know i does? “Please check the box if you where thinking in stealing this item” someone that never stole before or was never caught might steal anyway and someone who stole before and you prevent him/ her from entering might mean a lost sale or customer.
bonestamp2 7y ago
In store, pay with cash (if your face hasn't already been linked to your identity). If it has, it's too late. Online, you're screwed. They link you with your phone number and/or email address and those are often necessary for purchase.
- jb775 7y ago
  I've been telling myself to pay with cash more often, primarily because I think it's crazy that a finance company gets 3%-5% of every purchase using a CC. Obviously some of that covers overhead, but it's mostly a mafia style shake-down that society is blindly accepting as a matter of convenience. Stores linking facial recognition with CC details is just extra motivation for me.
  - Reelin 7y ago
    I'm not a huge fan of the current state of affairs wrt privacy, but... aren't credit cards also a form of insurance for all involved? The consumer avoids carrying potentially large quantities of cash, and the business reduces their risk of exposure to theft of various forms.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Most neighborhoods aren't so dangerous that carrying around $100 or so in cash to pay for groceries is a significant risk. Nor are most people ever going to chargeback a grocery store purchase. For some sorts of purchases, particularly larger purchases, the benefits of a credit card become more important. But for most casual day to day purchases? Not so much in my opinion.
      - jb775 7y ago
        What are the benefits of using a CC for large in-person purchases compared to small?
        catalogia 7y ago
pmoriarty 7y ago
"I wonder how long before they'll ban adversarial masks or hats in the name of safety or some other such nonsense..." In the US it's long been illegal to wear masks in public. From what I understand, this was done as a response to KKK members wearing masks to intimidate their victims and hide their identity. However, I've personally never seen or heard of the anti-mask laws enforced, and I see Asian people wearing surgical masks in public relatively often, without any legal consequence that I'm aware of. People wearing masks on Halloween also seems to be not only tolerated but encouraged. And, while concern about the Wuhan coronavirus lasts, I expect to see a lot more masks worn in public. Of course there are certain locations like banks, jewellery stores, courthouses and other government buildings, where wearing a mask probably won't be looked upon too kindly.
- Reelin 7y ago
  Actually, it's not clear to what extent such laws are constitutional in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States). Anonymous speech (among other things) is very clearly protected, but threats of violence obviously aren't. If challenged, I wonder if arguing that the mask was your way of expressing your wish not to be tracked would be successful. Of course this is all irrelevant since it likely won't be law enforcement you have to contend with - presumably businesses that cared would simply refuse entry to those with face coverings.
- will_pseudonym 7y ago
  It is not illegal to wear masks in public in _The United States_. It may be illegal to wear masks in certain _states_, but that's quite different.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Surgical masks you can probably get away with, particularly if there is wildfire smoke in the region or a disease scare. In very cold weather regions you might be able to get away with a scarf covering your lower face. Walking into a store with other sorts mask on in America runs a not insignificant chance of getting you shot, or at least held at gunpoint. But more importantly, you'd be traumatizing everybody else in the store. When somebody walks into a store with a mask on, more people expect 'robber' than 'privacy enthusiast'.
deltron3030 7y ago
People hate this, so it's a opportunity for competitors to avoid doing it, and to trash and out those who do it.

root_axis 7y ago

Boycott and protest, name and shame.

GordonS 7y ago

When ordering the fake ID, you'd need some kind of method that allowed the buyer to remain anonymous - I guess there are a few crypo currencies that fit the bill. You'd also need to get the fake ID delivered somewhere other than your home, so it couldn't be trivially tied back to you.

jlgaddis 7y ago
> ... so it couldn't be trivially tied back to you. Except that a fake ID will have your picture on it.

nocturnial 7y ago

> What do you do? First ask them why they need this system. If it's reasonable then implement rules and laws so it can only be used for this specific purpose. If the reason for installing it is to prevent theft then they shouldn't have any problems with rules limiting them to this one specific usage and a fine if they used it for anything else (eg. marketing). We can also make up rules where it is acceptable to use it for marketing (informed consent being the bare minimum). These things, like face recognition of customers, have a tendency of spinning out of control. They say they originally used it for purpose X but because they have the data... Why not use it for purpose Y and Z?

Frost1x 7y ago

The free market will fix this (chuckles). In all seriousness, it does open a business opportunity to create proxies to do your shopping for you, essentially hiding your identity through third parties. I don't think that's the real solution. We need to legislate these issues. Years ago these were clearly possible options. It's only a matter of time before we start to see dynamic pricing based on identity as well. Consumers need to stop allowing these practices to happen. Spend more and shop at smaller shops if you have to. Elect people who will stop letting corporate greed interests take over at the detriment of our shared society and living conditions.

neuralRiot 7y ago
The irony os that it does not prevent theft or how do you know i does? “Please check the box if you where thinking in stealing this item” someone that never stole before or was never caught might steal anyway and someone who stole before and you prevent him/ her from entering might mean a lost sale or customer.

bonestamp2 7y ago

In store, pay with cash (if your face hasn't already been linked to your identity). If it has, it's too late. Online, you're screwed. They link you with your phone number and/or email address and those are often necessary for purchase.

jb775 7y ago
I've been telling myself to pay with cash more often, primarily because I think it's crazy that a finance company gets 3%-5% of every purchase using a CC. Obviously some of that covers overhead, but it's mostly a mafia style shake-down that society is blindly accepting as a matter of convenience. Stores linking facial recognition with CC details is just extra motivation for me.
- Reelin 7y ago
  I'm not a huge fan of the current state of affairs wrt privacy, but... aren't credit cards also a form of insurance for all involved? The consumer avoids carrying potentially large quantities of cash, and the business reduces their risk of exposure to theft of various forms.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Most neighborhoods aren't so dangerous that carrying around $100 or so in cash to pay for groceries is a significant risk. Nor are most people ever going to chargeback a grocery store purchase. For some sorts of purchases, particularly larger purchases, the benefits of a credit card become more important. But for most casual day to day purchases? Not so much in my opinion.
    - jb775 7y ago
      What are the benefits of using a CC for large in-person purchases compared to small?
      - catalogia 7y ago

pmoriarty 7y ago

"I wonder how long before they'll ban adversarial masks or hats in the name of safety or some other such nonsense..." In the US it's long been illegal to wear masks in public. From what I understand, this was done as a response to KKK members wearing masks to intimidate their victims and hide their identity. However, I've personally never seen or heard of the anti-mask laws enforced, and I see Asian people wearing surgical masks in public relatively often, without any legal consequence that I'm aware of. People wearing masks on Halloween also seems to be not only tolerated but encouraged. And, while concern about the Wuhan coronavirus lasts, I expect to see a lot more masks worn in public. Of course there are certain locations like banks, jewellery stores, courthouses and other government buildings, where wearing a mask probably won't be looked upon too kindly.

Reelin 7y ago
Actually, it's not clear to what extent such laws are constitutional in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law#United_States). Anonymous speech (among other things) is very clearly protected, but threats of violence obviously aren't. If challenged, I wonder if arguing that the mask was your way of expressing your wish not to be tracked would be successful. Of course this is all irrelevant since it likely won't be law enforcement you have to contend with - presumably businesses that cared would simply refuse entry to those with face coverings.
will_pseudonym 7y ago
It is not illegal to wear masks in public in _The United States_. It may be illegal to wear masks in certain _states_, but that's quite different.
catalogia 7y ago
Surgical masks you can probably get away with, particularly if there is wildfire smoke in the region or a disease scare. In very cold weather regions you might be able to get away with a scarf covering your lower face. Walking into a store with other sorts mask on in America runs a not insignificant chance of getting you shot, or at least held at gunpoint. But more importantly, you'd be traumatizing everybody else in the store. When somebody walks into a store with a mask on, more people expect 'robber' than 'privacy enthusiast'.

deltron3030 7y ago

People hate this, so it's a opportunity for competitors to avoid doing it, and to trash and out those who do it.