5 ms·

I'm amazed that there's not a movement to stop eating and being around animals as much world-wide, given that so much disease (and environmental damage) comes f

I'm amazed that there's not a movement to stop eating and being around animals as much world-wide, given that so much disease (and environmental damage) comes from consumption of and proximity to animals: - MERS-CoV: bats via dromedary camels - nCoV-2019: bats or snakes? - Influenza: pigs, birds - E. coli O157:H7: cows and other farm animals. ... (Edit: I mean along the lines of how safer sex is encouraged to prevent STDs, hand washing is encouraged to prevent food-borne illnesses, ... I haven't seen a call for the above.)

maxerickson 7y ago
There is a movement against industrial livestock production.
cm2187 7y ago
The worst thing you can do to the human immune system is to cease to expose it to pathogens.
- ppseafield 7y ago
  It's not a dichotomy - removing animals from our diet does not leave a sterile environment for humans. Humans and their environment are plenty filthy on their own.
  - cm2187 7y ago
    Then this is purely a vegan argument unrelated to the virus.
    - nerdponx 7y ago
      Again, not a dichotomy. Humans will remain exposed to pathogens even if we eliminate one source of new and dangerous ones.
- sudosysgen 7y ago
  And the second worse thing is to expose it to completely novel viruses. How about we expose it to as many common viruses as we want, but try to prevent novel viruses from popping up?
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Clearly this is bullshit since exposing it to a sufficient load of HIV fucks it up proper. So we have an existence proof of at least one thing worse than "ceasing to expose it to pathogens".
dghughes 7y ago
Bats carry many viruses but are asymptomatic. Pigs can contract viruses from other animals, they mutate and then it's passed on to humans. A bat biting a pig is probably the cause of many weird viruses. You also have to wonder if the African Swine flu running rampant through China is also part of the cause.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  > wonder if the African Swine flu running rampant through China is also part of the cause You mean as in it having transformed and evolved from the swine flu?
  - khuey 7y ago
    The ASF and the 2019-nCoV viruses are not related at all.
  - dghughes 7y ago
    I guess it's actually called African Swine Fever aka Swine Flu. If pigs can be incubators of human and non-human viruses and ASF being rampant did it and whatever bat virus or seafood virus get together in a pig and create 2019-nCoV.
suifbwish 7y ago
Actually, I see a much greater risk being around other humans. It’s why I don’t live near a major city and work from home. There is a chance that a virus from an animal might mutate to be human communicable but literally every virus from a human is already human communicable. People see it as somehow natural to live in a city of millions of people and then we are viewing animals as the greatest threat?
- simonswords82 7y ago
  You genuinely chose where to live on the basis that living in remote proximity to other humans could perhaps lower your chance of catching an illness from them?
  - suifbwish 7y ago
    There are other reasons I’ve moved here but that did play into why I moved my family away from cities. I don’t think it’s safe living near too many people. I prefer to know everyone I interact with in my life. That and I cannot stand the sound of traffic constantly. Additionally, there is more chance of dying in a car accident or in some sort of crime. Plus if there is a war, major cities will be the first targets. People who cluster together tend to assume everything is just going to work out and don’t think about possibilities of what could happen.
asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
I mean, we're talking for the most part about cases where people were having sustained contact with infected animals in wet market-type situations. It's not obvious to me that the problem is animal consumption in general, or if the issue is the prevalence of wet markets in SE Asia. And in any case, if there's a group of people who you're going to have trouble convincing to move away from animal consumption, folks who work in the animal industry are probably going to be the last ones to switch. E. Coli is also scary, but it doesn't spread as readily person to person, so it's not something that's going to move the needle for most people.
Grazester 7y ago
Lets not forget ebola
hanniabu 7y ago
But when you eat certain animal parts you gain extra powers like increased strength, intelligence, testosterone, and sexual prowess! /s
legulere 7y ago
Basically all human diseases started out as zoonosis as humans for a long time we’re too few to be a viable reservoir.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  The worst part is how the diseases from other animals are way too deadly to humans. The human-specific diseases like the common cold are a great example of a disease that is ideally adapted to its host. Its high adaptable (thus getting around our immune system), it spreads effectively, and crucially, it's very rarely fatal. Because it's not deadly, it can easily infect the same host over a hundred times throughout its lifetime. Viruses that are routinely deadly to the organisms catching them are not adapted well to their hosts. We see this with HIV (came from monkeys), the worse flus (came from birds), and all sorts of other stuff.
- khuey 7y ago
  And we have the capacity to eliminate pathogens that don't have animal reservoirs. Smallpox is extinct and polio is relatively close.
ComputerGuru 7y ago
Don’t forget AIDS, which has simian origins!
stevens32 7y ago
People who would pay attention to warnings like that are probably not the same demographic working in the wet-markets in the first place
cies 7y ago
Another reason we all should go vegan: prevent disease outbreaks. (besides: kindness to animals, lower climate impact, solve food scarcity, human health)
- blackrock 7y ago
  I agree. It’s possibly a combination of the infected urine, feces, and blood from infected animals. And it mutated into something that transmitted to humans. And it doesn’t even have to be a wild animal. The wild animal could’ve just been the carrier, and was immune to the actual virus. And it was your house pet that got sick from it, and had infected bodily fluids. And then when you clean up your pet, your infected hands touched your mouth or eyes, and you got sick. Then you might’ve transmitted it to someone else with a weaker immune system, and they got sick, and so forth, and now we have a full blown pandemic. So it could have been a wild animal that transmitted their infected feces to your house pet, or to a stray dog or cat. And dogs urinate on every tree, and other dogs like sniffing and licking that urine. Then your dog licks you or your kids. Gross. Maybe it’s time I became a vegetarian. Although you can still get E. coli poisoning from unsafe industrial food processing. But that sweet meat and bbq sauce.. delicious.. I.. can’t.. resist..
  - cies 7y ago
    its the industrial scale that animals get exploited on that makes outbreaks like this a lot more likely. its also the industrial scale and treatment of animals that anger vegans the most.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Well there hasn't been much of a choice historically and a zoophobic approach would carry way too many other side effects.

maxerickson 7y ago

There is a movement against industrial livestock production.

cm2187 7y ago

The worst thing you can do to the human immune system is to cease to expose it to pathogens.

ppseafield 7y ago
It's not a dichotomy - removing animals from our diet does not leave a sterile environment for humans. Humans and their environment are plenty filthy on their own.
- cm2187 7y ago
  Then this is purely a vegan argument unrelated to the virus.
  - nerdponx 7y ago
    Again, not a dichotomy. Humans will remain exposed to pathogens even if we eliminate one source of new and dangerous ones.
sudosysgen 7y ago
And the second worse thing is to expose it to completely novel viruses. How about we expose it to as many common viruses as we want, but try to prevent novel viruses from popping up?
scarejunba 7y ago
Clearly this is bullshit since exposing it to a sufficient load of HIV fucks it up proper. So we have an existence proof of at least one thing worse than "ceasing to expose it to pathogens".

dghughes 7y ago

Bats carry many viruses but are asymptomatic. Pigs can contract viruses from other animals, they mutate and then it's passed on to humans. A bat biting a pig is probably the cause of many weird viruses. You also have to wonder if the African Swine flu running rampant through China is also part of the cause.

hanniabu 7y ago
> wonder if the African Swine flu running rampant through China is also part of the cause You mean as in it having transformed and evolved from the swine flu?
- khuey 7y ago
  The ASF and the 2019-nCoV viruses are not related at all.
- dghughes 7y ago
  I guess it's actually called African Swine Fever aka Swine Flu. If pigs can be incubators of human and non-human viruses and ASF being rampant did it and whatever bat virus or seafood virus get together in a pig and create 2019-nCoV.

suifbwish 7y ago

Actually, I see a much greater risk being around other humans. It’s why I don’t live near a major city and work from home. There is a chance that a virus from an animal might mutate to be human communicable but literally every virus from a human is already human communicable. People see it as somehow natural to live in a city of millions of people and then we are viewing animals as the greatest threat?

simonswords82 7y ago
You genuinely chose where to live on the basis that living in remote proximity to other humans could perhaps lower your chance of catching an illness from them?
- suifbwish 7y ago
  There are other reasons I’ve moved here but that did play into why I moved my family away from cities. I don’t think it’s safe living near too many people. I prefer to know everyone I interact with in my life. That and I cannot stand the sound of traffic constantly. Additionally, there is more chance of dying in a car accident or in some sort of crime. Plus if there is a war, major cities will be the first targets. People who cluster together tend to assume everything is just going to work out and don’t think about possibilities of what could happen.

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago

I mean, we're talking for the most part about cases where people were having sustained contact with infected animals in wet market-type situations. It's not obvious to me that the problem is animal consumption in general, or if the issue is the prevalence of wet markets in SE Asia. And in any case, if there's a group of people who you're going to have trouble convincing to move away from animal consumption, folks who work in the animal industry are probably going to be the last ones to switch. E. Coli is also scary, but it doesn't spread as readily person to person, so it's not something that's going to move the needle for most people.

Grazester 7y ago

Lets not forget ebola

hanniabu 7y ago

But when you eat certain animal parts you gain extra powers like increased strength, intelligence, testosterone, and sexual prowess! /s

legulere 7y ago

Basically all human diseases started out as zoonosis as humans for a long time we’re too few to be a viable reservoir.

CydeWeys 7y ago
The worst part is how the diseases from other animals are way too deadly to humans. The human-specific diseases like the common cold are a great example of a disease that is ideally adapted to its host. Its high adaptable (thus getting around our immune system), it spreads effectively, and crucially, it's very rarely fatal. Because it's not deadly, it can easily infect the same host over a hundred times throughout its lifetime. Viruses that are routinely deadly to the organisms catching them are not adapted well to their hosts. We see this with HIV (came from monkeys), the worse flus (came from birds), and all sorts of other stuff.
khuey 7y ago
And we have the capacity to eliminate pathogens that don't have animal reservoirs. Smallpox is extinct and polio is relatively close.

ComputerGuru 7y ago

Don’t forget AIDS, which has simian origins!

stevens32 7y ago

People who would pay attention to warnings like that are probably not the same demographic working in the wet-markets in the first place

cies 7y ago

Another reason we all should go vegan: prevent disease outbreaks. (besides: kindness to animals, lower climate impact, solve food scarcity, human health)

blackrock 7y ago
I agree. It’s possibly a combination of the infected urine, feces, and blood from infected animals. And it mutated into something that transmitted to humans. And it doesn’t even have to be a wild animal. The wild animal could’ve just been the carrier, and was immune to the actual virus. And it was your house pet that got sick from it, and had infected bodily fluids. And then when you clean up your pet, your infected hands touched your mouth or eyes, and you got sick. Then you might’ve transmitted it to someone else with a weaker immune system, and they got sick, and so forth, and now we have a full blown pandemic. So it could have been a wild animal that transmitted their infected feces to your house pet, or to a stray dog or cat. And dogs urinate on every tree, and other dogs like sniffing and licking that urine. Then your dog licks you or your kids. Gross. Maybe it’s time I became a vegetarian. Although you can still get E. coli poisoning from unsafe industrial food processing. But that sweet meat and bbq sauce.. delicious.. I.. can’t.. resist..
- cies 7y ago
  its the industrial scale that animals get exploited on that makes outbreaks like this a lot more likely. its also the industrial scale and treatment of animals that anger vegans the most.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Well there hasn't been much of a choice historically and a zoophobic approach would carry way too many other side effects.