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Is there any plan or agreement for how national borders should respond to plate tectonics? I guess one answer could be "they don't" and it would be possible for

Is there any plan or agreement for how national borders should respond to plate tectonics? I guess one answer could be "they don't" and it would be possible for a town to gradually move into a different country, or a country to move ever more into the ocean, but that doesn't seem particularly satisfactory.

Retric 7y ago
Borders are defined based on things like rivers, mountain tops, and physical markers. Which inherently move with the plates, so plate movements are effectively irrelevant. As to something moving out to sea, the land everyone cares about is floating due to lower density, if it moves a mile in ~15,000 years it’s not going to noticeably change in anyone’s lifetime. And chances are the border will have changed several times before that happens.
- whoopdedo 7y ago
  Unless you border spans a fault line, like in Hayward, CA. And it's not like rivers and mountains can be depended on to stay in one place. Just ask Carter Lake, Iowa.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  I'm really holding on borders becoming irrelevant in a time far shorter than 15000 years. Humanity must be united into a single entity and explore the stars together.
- s0rce 7y ago
  Rivers don't move with the plates, well, they do, but they also move in addition. I'm not an expert but you can see the California-Arizona border along the Colorado river doesn't line up with the current course in a few places: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9012327,-114.5227135,14.5z https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9012327,-114.5227135,14.5z Similarly, with the US-Mexico border further along the river https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6117771,-114.7983232,14z https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6117771,-114.7983232,14z
  - Retric 7y ago
    If a river straddles a flat line you might get a kink, but that’s normal in rivers. Generally they are surprising resilient, consider the rather inaccurately name new river basically ignore a 480 million year old mountain range that’s in it’s path. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Kanawha_River_tributary) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Kanawha_River_tribu...
mistrial9 7y ago
interesting to see both "it won't change in your lifetime and anyway it is a giant natural feature that moves with the grounds" and "for every known lake in the world, I found a real example of this problem" under the same reply ! Both are insufficiently general .. Precision request in, and precision model out.. the expectation and means of the questioner does matter.. A national boundary in many places is quite adequately described with "1 meter resolution" because.. the whole nation is what is bounded ! However, to a active combatant, ask how the border is defined.. not even close to one meter.. the enemy is in our territory! On the Earth Sciences side, there are sudden events that can move Earth more than a meter, and there are tectonically active areas which moves in different directions, in different and relevant amounts, often, every year. Does a lake in the middle of nowhere, move a portion of a meter in a lifetime? The answer is, who is asking and why, because the intensity of the precision requested is related to the intensity of the inquiry by the inquirer. Water moves constantly, you fool! It is the stability that is more a question. Last point in this pointless response on mapping.. Math and numbers are a fine tool, and remarkably useful, but the living, cycling, dripping world we live in, will not be revealed solely through better tables of numbers (as tempting as that is to YNews readers). Two hundred years ago this world was teeming with life of all sorts, and now, pesticides, pavement and poaching have seriously changed that, with no end in sight. Please act accordingly.

Retric 7y ago

Borders are defined based on things like rivers, mountain tops, and physical markers. Which inherently move with the plates, so plate movements are effectively irrelevant. As to something moving out to sea, the land everyone cares about is floating due to lower density, if it moves a mile in ~15,000 years it’s not going to noticeably change in anyone’s lifetime. And chances are the border will have changed several times before that happens.

whoopdedo 7y ago
Unless you border spans a fault line, like in Hayward, CA. And it's not like rivers and mountains can be depended on to stay in one place. Just ask Carter Lake, Iowa.
Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
I'm really holding on borders becoming irrelevant in a time far shorter than 15000 years. Humanity must be united into a single entity and explore the stars together.
s0rce 7y ago
Rivers don't move with the plates, well, they do, but they also move in addition. I'm not an expert but you can see the California-Arizona border along the Colorado river doesn't line up with the current course in a few places: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9012327,-114.5227135,14.5z https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9012327,-114.5227135,14.5z Similarly, with the US-Mexico border further along the river https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6117771,-114.7983232,14z https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6117771,-114.7983232,14z
- Retric 7y ago
  If a river straddles a flat line you might get a kink, but that’s normal in rivers. Generally they are surprising resilient, consider the rather inaccurately name new river basically ignore a 480 million year old mountain range that’s in it’s path. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Kanawha_River_tributary) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River_(Kanawha_River_tribu...

mistrial9 7y ago

interesting to see both "it won't change in your lifetime and anyway it is a giant natural feature that moves with the grounds" and "for every known lake in the world, I found a real example of this problem" under the same reply ! Both are insufficiently general .. Precision request in, and precision model out.. the expectation and means of the questioner does matter.. A national boundary in many places is quite adequately described with "1 meter resolution" because.. the whole nation is what is bounded ! However, to a active combatant, ask how the border is defined.. not even close to one meter.. the enemy is in our territory! On the Earth Sciences side, there are sudden events that can move Earth more than a meter, and there are tectonically active areas which moves in different directions, in different and relevant amounts, often, every year. Does a lake in the middle of nowhere, move a portion of a meter in a lifetime? The answer is, who is asking and why, because the intensity of the precision requested is related to the intensity of the inquiry by the inquirer. Water moves constantly, you fool! It is the stability that is more a question. Last point in this pointless response on mapping.. Math and numbers are a fine tool, and remarkably useful, but the living, cycling, dripping world we live in, will not be revealed solely through better tables of numbers (as tempting as that is to YNews readers). Two hundred years ago this world was teeming with life of all sorts, and now, pesticides, pavement and poaching have seriously changed that, with no end in sight. Please act accordingly.