6 ms·

I suspect you greatly underestimate how much the average person didn't really care here. In the moment, yeah, this matters - but Google still beats DDG for cer

I suspect you greatly underestimate how much the average person didn't really care here. In the moment, yeah, this matters - but Google still beats DDG for certain classes of results and people go where the easiest experience is. I say this as a user of DDG. ;P

toyg 7y ago
People don’t really compare that hard. If DDG’s experience is intuitively easier than Google’s in the first minutes (because there are no ads and results are good enough), people will switch. The real problem is the “embedness” level of Google is much higher than any search engine achieved before: a switcher must make a pretty serious effort to change browser settings, change tools etc, and you can bet top dollars that Google will pull all monopolistic tricks in the book as soon as they feel their position is truly challenged. This is a scenario akin to Microsoft vs office open standards back in the ‘00s.
- lrem 7y ago
  I've just checked the "there are no ads on DDG" and saw half of the content space taken by Wikipedia-sourced infobox, half by ad, searching for "insurance". Interestingly enough, Google shows me no ads for the same query (whole screen of local maps, then related queries, then organic results). "Car insurance" though ;) Disclaimer: I do work in Google, but nowhere near anything user visible (I'm developing SRE infrastructure).
  - kiwijamo 7y ago
    Did a DDG search and there are no ads. Just the Wikipedia infobox and a list of insurance companies in my country (and the Wikipedia article for Insurance at #3). It makes a very good starting point for someone wanting to get quotes from a range of companies etc. Google's results is interesting though as it starts with one insurance company only (ad placement? It doesn't show it as a ad tho but it looks and feels like one given it's isolated from the rest of the results after the fold). It is then followed by a map which is an odd choice as generally most people in my country manage their insurance online or over the phone. Then below the fold more companies can be found but with media stories(?!) thrown in as well interrupting the flow. It's been a long time since I've used Google as my daily driver and I'm gobsmacked at how badly it executes this query. It used to be very good but no longer. I have used DDG for some years now and it generally works just fine for me. This limited experiment in going back to Google has made me happier with DDG as my default search engine.
  - gpanders 7y ago
    I didn’t think DDG claims to be ad-free, merely tracking free. They still have to keep the lights on, after all.
  - toyg 7y ago
    With adblockers on, I get no ads on either engine. With adblockers off, I get 2 ads on DDG and 4 on Google. I suspect your adblocker is just more targeted towards Google.
    - lrem 7y ago
      That was Google Chrome on Android without any ad blocking.
- Klonoar 7y ago
  There's a difference in our indifference, you know. "People don't really compare that hard" has been demonstrated to be false - if people didn't care that much, Bing & co would've seen much greater success in the past few years. It's not like this hasn't been tried before. Google is so damn good at search that being "good enough" isn't good enough for the average user. You have to be as good as Google. This is why Apple and Mozilla work with Google to offer them as a default - they're not dumb, they know people expect it.
  - toyg 7y ago
    Bing was really, really bad when it started. Perception was shaped and a lot of people go out of their way to avoid it, even though it's now just fine for most uses. In this sense, DDG has an advantage, because it has had time to improve substantially before its brand hit the mainstream (which has not happened yet). I'm still convinced the advantage Google has is not fundamentally technical. A lot of people expect it not because it's good, but because it has always meant "search" for them, ever since they got online. Google spent a generation at the top, and that sort of entrenchment is really hard to lose. Even Microsoft didn't really lose their primacy on the desktop - the internet just got big enough to escape their stranglehold.
- dx034 7y ago
  Local (esp foreign language) results are so much worse on DDG. For many users it's just not an option. And people don't care about text ads, as long as they are relevant. I love DDG but if they can't get results with a quality close to what google offers, I don't think they'll ever become mainstream.

toyg 7y ago

People don’t really compare that hard. If DDG’s experience is intuitively easier than Google’s in the first minutes (because there are no ads and results are good enough), people will switch. The real problem is the “embedness” level of Google is much higher than any search engine achieved before: a switcher must make a pretty serious effort to change browser settings, change tools etc, and you can bet top dollars that Google will pull all monopolistic tricks in the book as soon as they feel their position is truly challenged. This is a scenario akin to Microsoft vs office open standards back in the ‘00s.

lrem 7y ago
I've just checked the "there are no ads on DDG" and saw half of the content space taken by Wikipedia-sourced infobox, half by ad, searching for "insurance". Interestingly enough, Google shows me no ads for the same query (whole screen of local maps, then related queries, then organic results). "Car insurance" though ;) Disclaimer: I do work in Google, but nowhere near anything user visible (I'm developing SRE infrastructure).
- kiwijamo 7y ago
  Did a DDG search and there are no ads. Just the Wikipedia infobox and a list of insurance companies in my country (and the Wikipedia article for Insurance at #3). It makes a very good starting point for someone wanting to get quotes from a range of companies etc. Google's results is interesting though as it starts with one insurance company only (ad placement? It doesn't show it as a ad tho but it looks and feels like one given it's isolated from the rest of the results after the fold). It is then followed by a map which is an odd choice as generally most people in my country manage their insurance online or over the phone. Then below the fold more companies can be found but with media stories(?!) thrown in as well interrupting the flow. It's been a long time since I've used Google as my daily driver and I'm gobsmacked at how badly it executes this query. It used to be very good but no longer. I have used DDG for some years now and it generally works just fine for me. This limited experiment in going back to Google has made me happier with DDG as my default search engine.
- gpanders 7y ago
  I didn’t think DDG claims to be ad-free, merely tracking free. They still have to keep the lights on, after all.
- toyg 7y ago
  With adblockers on, I get no ads on either engine. With adblockers off, I get 2 ads on DDG and 4 on Google. I suspect your adblocker is just more targeted towards Google.
  - lrem 7y ago
    That was Google Chrome on Android without any ad blocking.
Klonoar 7y ago
There's a difference in our indifference, you know. "People don't really compare that hard" has been demonstrated to be false - if people didn't care that much, Bing & co would've seen much greater success in the past few years. It's not like this hasn't been tried before. Google is so damn good at search that being "good enough" isn't good enough for the average user. You have to be as good as Google. This is why Apple and Mozilla work with Google to offer them as a default - they're not dumb, they know people expect it.
- toyg 7y ago
  Bing was really, really bad when it started. Perception was shaped and a lot of people go out of their way to avoid it, even though it's now just fine for most uses. In this sense, DDG has an advantage, because it has had time to improve substantially before its brand hit the mainstream (which has not happened yet). I'm still convinced the advantage Google has is not fundamentally technical. A lot of people expect it not because it's good, but because it has always meant "search" for them, ever since they got online. Google spent a generation at the top, and that sort of entrenchment is really hard to lose. Even Microsoft didn't really lose their primacy on the desktop - the internet just got big enough to escape their stranglehold.
dx034 7y ago
Local (esp foreign language) results are so much worse on DDG. For many users it's just not an option. And people don't care about text ads, as long as they are relevant. I love DDG but if they can't get results with a quality close to what google offers, I don't think they'll ever become mainstream.