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For messaging, I highly encourage people to use matrix.org. For tech savvy people it's really easy to self-host https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ans

For messaging, I highly encourage people to use matrix.org. For tech savvy people it's really easy to self-host https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy and the good part is that you can set up bridges to telegram, whatsapp, facebook, irc, discord, slack... So you can use those apps privately while waiting for people to switch to better alternatives (which may never happens sadly). Bonus: the desktop app is a rather lightweight web app usable in browser, so goodbye RAM eating monsters like slack and discord.

anderspitman 7y ago
I tried, I really did. Got my close group of ~8 friends on the public Matrix server. People would miss messages because they only use Matrix for that one thing, and would forget to login/check/etc. That and a few choice little bugs pushed them back to FB messenger. That said, I'm hopeful for the future of the protocol.
- dnpp123 7y ago
  Yes, things are still moving fast. AFAIK the final 1.0 version of the protocol spec was only released last Summer. The "I missed message because I only use xxx for that one thing" is valid for every app as long as you have fragmentation in the messaging space I think. That's why I like the idea of using the same client for a multitude of services through bridges, and not forcing people to necessarily use your network (even if they should :p)
  - edraferi 7y ago
    How do you deliver end-to-end encryption in a federated architecture like that?
    - dnpp123 7y ago
      You can peek at : https://matrix.org/docs/develop/ https://matrix.org/docs/develop/ tldr; similar to signal afaik The docs there for E2E are fairly old but get you an idea how it works. E2E has improved a lot in the last few months IMHO.
- stevenicr 7y ago
  Interesting point, I am going to assume there is an option or bridge or plugin or something that can send an email notification that you or your group / chat room has new messages(?) - and this may be an important, perhaps default selected, option for new users trying out a matrix flavor(?) I remember when fbk would send messages to everyone, some of my clients had a hundred emails a day from fbk in their inbox, and they were checking in several times a day, now it's become a habit regardless I think for most.
  - anderspitman 7y ago
    Getting emails likely would have pissed them off.
    - stevenicr 7y ago
      So we need an easy toggle, and option to do this via email reply.. and option to change notifications from each message into twice per day or once an hour or other options.. I think that would satisfy most people. I hated emails from fbk and turned them all off long ago, but some people seem to like that kind of thing, so we might need options, and options for those who want a reminder but not a bunch of reminders everyday.
      - anderspitman 7y ago
        I'm impressed you were able to accomplish some specific thing you wanted to do using the FB settings.
        stevenicr 7y ago
        funny thing about that, some time ago I tried to figure out how to stop all messages from fbook to my email, after menu hopping for some time, I allowed my gf to go into the settings and turn it all off and turn on many privacy settings. I know fbook has changed the privacy things several times since then, but I don't use it enough to have any issues I think.. I also don't use messenger app or fbook mobile, so I've gotten lucky (and helped) to get zero messages from them for years.
everfree 7y ago
I tried Matrix/Riot, but I ran into some big UI issues trying to get a E2E channel going between me and a friend (I had to "create" the channel multiple times, or add keys multiple times, I can't remember). And we share screens a lot, which Riot didn't seem to support. It was a while ago, but I also seem to remember delayed messages. The audio quality was nice though.
jammygit 7y ago
Is encryption built in yet?
balladeer 7y ago
I tried. Friends didn't stay. In fact even I am myself not very keen on the existing implementation. I love the idea and the protocol but UX (on all the platforms) and the onboarding are really cumbersome. I don't ask anyone to go to Signal because it's centralized like WhatsApp, Fb.
underthensun 7y ago
I was relly looking for something like that. I'll give a try!

anderspitman 7y ago

I tried, I really did. Got my close group of ~8 friends on the public Matrix server. People would miss messages because they only use Matrix for that one thing, and would forget to login/check/etc. That and a few choice little bugs pushed them back to FB messenger. That said, I'm hopeful for the future of the protocol.

dnpp123 7y ago
Yes, things are still moving fast. AFAIK the final 1.0 version of the protocol spec was only released last Summer. The "I missed message because I only use xxx for that one thing" is valid for every app as long as you have fragmentation in the messaging space I think. That's why I like the idea of using the same client for a multitude of services through bridges, and not forcing people to necessarily use your network (even if they should :p)
- edraferi 7y ago
  How do you deliver end-to-end encryption in a federated architecture like that?
  - dnpp123 7y ago
    You can peek at : https://matrix.org/docs/develop/ https://matrix.org/docs/develop/ tldr; similar to signal afaik The docs there for E2E are fairly old but get you an idea how it works. E2E has improved a lot in the last few months IMHO.
stevenicr 7y ago
Interesting point, I am going to assume there is an option or bridge or plugin or something that can send an email notification that you or your group / chat room has new messages(?) - and this may be an important, perhaps default selected, option for new users trying out a matrix flavor(?) I remember when fbk would send messages to everyone, some of my clients had a hundred emails a day from fbk in their inbox, and they were checking in several times a day, now it's become a habit regardless I think for most.
- anderspitman 7y ago
  Getting emails likely would have pissed them off.
  - stevenicr 7y ago
    So we need an easy toggle, and option to do this via email reply.. and option to change notifications from each message into twice per day or once an hour or other options.. I think that would satisfy most people. I hated emails from fbk and turned them all off long ago, but some people seem to like that kind of thing, so we might need options, and options for those who want a reminder but not a bunch of reminders everyday.
    - anderspitman 7y ago
      I'm impressed you were able to accomplish some specific thing you wanted to do using the FB settings.
      - stevenicr 7y ago
        funny thing about that, some time ago I tried to figure out how to stop all messages from fbook to my email, after menu hopping for some time, I allowed my gf to go into the settings and turn it all off and turn on many privacy settings. I know fbook has changed the privacy things several times since then, but I don't use it enough to have any issues I think.. I also don't use messenger app or fbook mobile, so I've gotten lucky (and helped) to get zero messages from them for years.

everfree 7y ago

I tried Matrix/Riot, but I ran into some big UI issues trying to get a E2E channel going between me and a friend (I had to "create" the channel multiple times, or add keys multiple times, I can't remember). And we share screens a lot, which Riot didn't seem to support. It was a while ago, but I also seem to remember delayed messages. The audio quality was nice though.

jammygit 7y ago

Is encryption built in yet?

balladeer 7y ago

I tried. Friends didn't stay. In fact even I am myself not very keen on the existing implementation. I love the idea and the protocol but UX (on all the platforms) and the onboarding are really cumbersome. I don't ask anyone to go to Signal because it's centralized like WhatsApp, Fb.

underthensun 7y ago

I was relly looking for something like that. I'll give a try!