9 ms·

The cost. This affects general aviation as older planes will require avionics upgrades. Otherwise I’m excited for the sheer amount of data that will be made a

by o-__-o 7y ago

The cost. This affects general aviation as older planes will require avionics upgrades. Otherwise I’m excited for the sheer amount of data that will be made available to the public. Now you will be able to track all FAA registered planes

mc32 7y ago
So no more low flying smugglers into and out of Canada/Mexico... wonder how they will adapt (beside going dark though they’d notice someone going dark after takeoff).
- simonswords82 7y ago
  They simply won't turn their GPS on.
  - mc32 7y ago
    Won’t they have to before takeoff? Or will that not be a requirement?
    - ssully 7y ago
      The people doing illegal activity with planes don't care about requirements or are paying people to overlook them ignoring the requirements.
    - jellicle 7y ago
      Drug smuggling planes might not be in full compliance with every single regulation.
      - sgc 7y ago
        It will probably be easier to spot them, since very few planes will show up on radar and not on the GPS system. It might be enough to go take a visual immediately once this is fully online.
        lozaning 7y ago
        I thought the way that they historically avoided detection was to quite literally fly below the radar. Wouldn't that still work with this new system, they just wont show up anywhere?
        sgc 7y ago
        That is one way, but sometimes they do show up / try to mimic other traffic / etc. That part of things would be reduced.
        beerandt 7y ago
        There are lots of other ways it's being monitored. But as for the flying below the radar, there are these along the southern border and Gulf of Mexico: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_Syst...
    - simonswords82 7y ago
      They'll ignore the rules as I'm sure they already do. As you'll see from the various documentaries, historically planes operating illegally and/or doing illegal things will fly "under the radar" and keep their transponder turned off to evade the authorities. They'll do the same thing with GPS.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      The overwhelming majority of airspace under 10K feet in the US does not require ADS-B out. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace/ https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace/
mattlutze 7y ago
Have you seen any official discussion of the data being made available? I feel like, for example, I'd be worried if fine-detail GPS data was being published live for example, or live enough to predict where the plane is "right" now...
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  It's been live for years. https://flightaware.com/live/ https://flightaware.com/live/ Any time my dad takes his personal plane up for an hour's flight, I get a text message and can watch his track (and altitude/speed) in real-time.
  - jcrawfordor 7y ago
    It's worth noting that this kind of data isn't published by the FAA - rather, ADS-B transponders openly transmit information and anyone who wants to is (at least technically) free to receive it. This includes commercial and hobbyist networks of receivers that report information to web services like this. The FAA in the US does publish a 'privacy list' of aircraft whose owners have requested that they not be included in services like this, and most commercial providers comply with that list, but enforcement is sparse and several hobbyist projects (e.g. ADS-B Exchange) do not and even emphasize aircraft that have put in such a request, since the tend to be a bit more interesting. A bit of a Streisand effect. The same situation exists with the similar AIS system used by ships at sea, and has produced concerns over malicious use, but there continue to be plenty of websites that will show you maps of ship locations picked up by their contributing AIS receivers.
throw0101a 7y ago
> Now you will be able to track all FAA registered planes Almost all. If you're flying VFR you can put your transponder into an anonymous / incognito mode (if it supports it): * https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-acts-to-preserve-ads-b-data-privacy/ https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-acts-to-preserve-ads... If you want IFR or flight following you'll have to de-anonymized, which is no worse than it was before ADS-B.
- o-__-o 7y ago
  Just out of curiosity, how are you anonymous when an Ads-b transponder will respond to any request it receives? Does incognito mode in your browser stop you from being tracked if e.g Google or facebook can see every or almost all of your requests?
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    In in cognito mode your transponder sends out a random ICAO ID when you squawk 1200 instead of the personally identifiable one. So people can see that someone is in a particular place, but not who that person/plane is.
sokoloff 7y ago
> track all FAA registered planes I very much doubt that we'll get to even 80% of the fleet of FAA registered airplanes having ADS-B out by 2030. We're at about 50% right now. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/installation/current_equipage_levels/ https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/installation/current_e...

by o-__-o 7y ago

mc32 7y ago

So no more low flying smugglers into and out of Canada/Mexico... wonder how they will adapt (beside going dark though they’d notice someone going dark after takeoff).

simonswords82 7y ago
They simply won't turn their GPS on.
- mc32 7y ago
  Won’t they have to before takeoff? Or will that not be a requirement?
  - ssully 7y ago
    The people doing illegal activity with planes don't care about requirements or are paying people to overlook them ignoring the requirements.
  - jellicle 7y ago
    Drug smuggling planes might not be in full compliance with every single regulation.
    - sgc 7y ago
      It will probably be easier to spot them, since very few planes will show up on radar and not on the GPS system. It might be enough to go take a visual immediately once this is fully online.
      - lozaning 7y ago
        I thought the way that they historically avoided detection was to quite literally fly below the radar. Wouldn't that still work with this new system, they just wont show up anywhere?
        sgc 7y ago
        That is one way, but sometimes they do show up / try to mimic other traffic / etc. That part of things would be reduced.
        beerandt 7y ago
        There are lots of other ways it's being monitored. But as for the flying below the radar, there are these along the southern border and Gulf of Mexico: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethered_Aerostat_Radar_Syst...
  - simonswords82 7y ago
    They'll ignore the rules as I'm sure they already do. As you'll see from the various documentaries, historically planes operating illegally and/or doing illegal things will fly "under the radar" and keep their transponder turned off to evade the authorities. They'll do the same thing with GPS.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    The overwhelming majority of airspace under 10K feet in the US does not require ADS-B out. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace/ https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace/

mattlutze 7y ago

Have you seen any official discussion of the data being made available? I feel like, for example, I'd be worried if fine-detail GPS data was being published live for example, or live enough to predict where the plane is "right" now...

ceejayoz 7y ago
It's been live for years. https://flightaware.com/live/ https://flightaware.com/live/ Any time my dad takes his personal plane up for an hour's flight, I get a text message and can watch his track (and altitude/speed) in real-time.
- jcrawfordor 7y ago
  It's worth noting that this kind of data isn't published by the FAA - rather, ADS-B transponders openly transmit information and anyone who wants to is (at least technically) free to receive it. This includes commercial and hobbyist networks of receivers that report information to web services like this. The FAA in the US does publish a 'privacy list' of aircraft whose owners have requested that they not be included in services like this, and most commercial providers comply with that list, but enforcement is sparse and several hobbyist projects (e.g. ADS-B Exchange) do not and even emphasize aircraft that have put in such a request, since the tend to be a bit more interesting. A bit of a Streisand effect. The same situation exists with the similar AIS system used by ships at sea, and has produced concerns over malicious use, but there continue to be plenty of websites that will show you maps of ship locations picked up by their contributing AIS receivers.

throw0101a 7y ago

> Now you will be able to track all FAA registered planes Almost all. If you're flying VFR you can put your transponder into an anonymous / incognito mode (if it supports it): * https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-acts-to-preserve-ads-b-data-privacy/ https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa-acts-to-preserve-ads... If you want IFR or flight following you'll have to de-anonymized, which is no worse than it was before ADS-B.

o-__-o 7y ago
Just out of curiosity, how are you anonymous when an Ads-b transponder will respond to any request it receives? Does incognito mode in your browser stop you from being tracked if e.g Google or facebook can see every or almost all of your requests?
- throw0101a 7y ago
  In in cognito mode your transponder sends out a random ICAO ID when you squawk 1200 instead of the personally identifiable one. So people can see that someone is in a particular place, but not who that person/plane is.

sokoloff 7y ago

> track all FAA registered planes I very much doubt that we'll get to even 80% of the fleet of FAA registered airplanes having ADS-B out by 2030. We're at about 50% right now. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/installation/current_equipage_levels/ https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/installation/current_e...