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I get the sense that the conflict the author describes is a problem in American culture, because most of us want to believe in a classless society, yet at the s

I get the sense that the conflict the author describes is a problem in American culture, because most of us want to believe in a classless society, yet at the same time, class is everywhere. I feel in many cultures it's far more explicit and tolerated. You know who your "betters" are. In America, you'd never acknowledge that. I'm not saying that a rigid social hierarchy would be better -- but our approach to society is to try to downplay social hierarchies, while in some sense they're inescapable.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Another way it’s hidden is in the way we project our status. It’s not tasteful here to have something that’s just “expensive” anymore. They’ll create more expensive versions of everything (such as iPhones). Ostensibly to give better features, but the “higher end” things tend to simply be a way to show wealth.
rapnie 7y ago
In Dutch society there is a saying "Act normal, then you are crazy enough". Showing ones wealth and status is not done and seen as flashy and arrogant, something to be ashamed of really. Edit: Good examples of where this leads to is the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte visiting the King by bike [0] or cleaning up his own spilled coffee by himself [1] while the cleaners are watching. [0] https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dutch-pm-forms-new-government-rides-his-bike-to-the-palace-to-tell-the-king-and-even-locks-it-up-355466 https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dutch-pm-form... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/06/after-mopping-up-spilled-coffee-dutch-leader-mark-rutte-becomes-a-symbol-of-etiquette/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/06...
- JackFr 7y ago
  Or your king flying planes for KLM.
- blululu 7y ago
  As someone who really admires Dutch culture, I would just add that in my experience "you are crazy enough" is more true in the Netherlands than elsewhere ;) It's probably not for nothing that such a small country has had such an outsized impact on the history of Science and Technology...
- brnt 7y ago
  It is not done in certain circles, and of course all circles engage in wealth (or its proxy, virtue) signalling, because we are apes who can't help themselves. Dutch society pretends to be above all that, and thereby developed a neat little blind spot on its radar. That situation isn't helped by its particularly irritant way of ignoring any contrarianism until the evidence is so overwhelming we all pretend we have always seen it in this new way. Class signalling is thus more subtle, e.g. you better not sound too provincial, you can observe the way one dresses, and what clubs or sports are frequented. The usual, but more toned down compared to driving a ridiculous BMW or somesuch.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  Riding a bike is a way to show off the best cycling infrastructure in the world, as well as your modern, wealthy, functional society where this is not a security concern. It's a pretty big flex. I burn with envy, and look at American transport infrastructure with disgust.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  I feel a lot of Americans feel the same way, too. I feel uncomfortable having people wait on me or clean up after me. My fiancée likes borrowing very expensive shoes from her sister and frankly, I find it very embarrassing. I kind of want to just... reject all of that, and live simply. She mostly agrees, but she does like nice things from time to time.
elil17 7y ago
In China, for instance, your annual income is a common get-to-know-you type question, right along with where you’re from
- CalRobert 7y ago
  That's remarkable - I don't even tell my parents my salary.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Another way it’s hidden is in the way we project our status. It’s not tasteful here to have something that’s just “expensive” anymore. They’ll create more expensive versions of everything (such as iPhones). Ostensibly to give better features, but the “higher end” things tend to simply be a way to show wealth.

rapnie 7y ago

In Dutch society there is a saying "Act normal, then you are crazy enough". Showing ones wealth and status is not done and seen as flashy and arrogant, something to be ashamed of really. Edit: Good examples of where this leads to is the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte visiting the King by bike [0] or cleaning up his own spilled coffee by himself [1] while the cleaners are watching. [0] https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dutch-pm-forms-new-government-rides-his-bike-to-the-palace-to-tell-the-king-and-even-locks-it-up-355466 https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/dutch-pm-form... [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/06/after-mopping-up-spilled-coffee-dutch-leader-mark-rutte-becomes-a-symbol-of-etiquette/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/06/06...

JackFr 7y ago
Or your king flying planes for KLM.
blululu 7y ago
As someone who really admires Dutch culture, I would just add that in my experience "you are crazy enough" is more true in the Netherlands than elsewhere ;) It's probably not for nothing that such a small country has had such an outsized impact on the history of Science and Technology...
brnt 7y ago
It is not done in certain circles, and of course all circles engage in wealth (or its proxy, virtue) signalling, because we are apes who can't help themselves. Dutch society pretends to be above all that, and thereby developed a neat little blind spot on its radar. That situation isn't helped by its particularly irritant way of ignoring any contrarianism until the evidence is so overwhelming we all pretend we have always seen it in this new way. Class signalling is thus more subtle, e.g. you better not sound too provincial, you can observe the way one dresses, and what clubs or sports are frequented. The usual, but more toned down compared to driving a ridiculous BMW or somesuch.
CalRobert 7y ago
Riding a bike is a way to show off the best cycling infrastructure in the world, as well as your modern, wealthy, functional society where this is not a security concern. It's a pretty big flex. I burn with envy, and look at American transport infrastructure with disgust.
asdfman123 7y ago
I feel a lot of Americans feel the same way, too. I feel uncomfortable having people wait on me or clean up after me. My fiancée likes borrowing very expensive shoes from her sister and frankly, I find it very embarrassing. I kind of want to just... reject all of that, and live simply. She mostly agrees, but she does like nice things from time to time.

elil17 7y ago

In China, for instance, your annual income is a common get-to-know-you type question, right along with where you’re from

CalRobert 7y ago
That's remarkable - I don't even tell my parents my salary.