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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that opinion carries less weight if they haven't lived the experience. I don't think that is unfair or controversi

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that opinion carries less weight if they haven't lived the experience. I don't think that is unfair or controversial. What you are in essence arguing for is free marketism. Unfortunately we are all painfully aware of the myrad of ways free markets fail on things which are not directly incentivised towards. The environment, safety and protection of minorities are all things which need special protection.

keanzu 7y ago
> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that opinion carries less weight if they haven't lived the experience. You don’t want a doctor to treat you for cancer unless he himself has had cancer? - Milton Friedman
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  I expect my doctor to treat me based on established medical fact. I don't really care about their opinion.
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    So in other words people should talk about social issues based on the facts (statistics) and not their opinions (lived experience), and being a part of the group in question is irrelevant?
    - VBprogrammer 7y ago
      Those are completely orthogonal. If I want to know what my chances of survival are having had some horrific treatment I ask my doctor. If I want an opinion on whether the pain of the treatment justifies the upside then I'd be better asking someone experiencing it. Going back to the original point, I said my opinion as a white-cis-straigh-male carry less weight than someone who is part of those groups. I certainly haven't studied the statistics and I haven't lived the experience. I'm not sure why so many people feel I should have more blind faith in my own opinion; I said nothing about the weight of their opinion.
    - keanzu 7y ago
      Exactly. A person's anecdata is worthless. "Lived experience" is anecdotal. A female researcher doesn't add anything to a study on ovarian cancer or detract anything from a study of testicular cancer because of her gender. Her anecdata is worth zero in both case, her actual data is what counts. If she tries an argument from authority (credentials or gender) her credibility is shot. Either the data supports her conclusions or it does not.
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        This is exactly why you need diversity. You don't see how a woman could help a study on ovarian cancer? Help point out procedure that's demeaning or inconvenient, point out "common sense" correlations? Even just have someone with an additional dimension of empathy for the subjects of the study. It doesn't mean she detracts from the study about testicular cancer, it means she adds to the one about ovarian. People don't seem to understand that the world doesn't operate on facts alone, and that it's not some failing of logic to take "feelings" into account in a process trying to come to a logical outcome. Not doing that is how companies end up making tone deaf decisions that were supported by the facts in their narrow view, but not the actual reality of the world

keanzu 7y ago

> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that opinion carries less weight if they haven't lived the experience. You don’t want a doctor to treat you for cancer unless he himself has had cancer? - Milton Friedman

VBprogrammer 7y ago
I expect my doctor to treat me based on established medical fact. I don't really care about their opinion.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  So in other words people should talk about social issues based on the facts (statistics) and not their opinions (lived experience), and being a part of the group in question is irrelevant?
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    Those are completely orthogonal. If I want to know what my chances of survival are having had some horrific treatment I ask my doctor. If I want an opinion on whether the pain of the treatment justifies the upside then I'd be better asking someone experiencing it. Going back to the original point, I said my opinion as a white-cis-straigh-male carry less weight than someone who is part of those groups. I certainly haven't studied the statistics and I haven't lived the experience. I'm not sure why so many people feel I should have more blind faith in my own opinion; I said nothing about the weight of their opinion.
  - keanzu 7y ago
    Exactly. A person's anecdata is worthless. "Lived experience" is anecdotal. A female researcher doesn't add anything to a study on ovarian cancer or detract anything from a study of testicular cancer because of her gender. Her anecdata is worth zero in both case, her actual data is what counts. If she tries an argument from authority (credentials or gender) her credibility is shot. Either the data supports her conclusions or it does not.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      This is exactly why you need diversity. You don't see how a woman could help a study on ovarian cancer? Help point out procedure that's demeaning or inconvenient, point out "common sense" correlations? Even just have someone with an additional dimension of empathy for the subjects of the study. It doesn't mean she detracts from the study about testicular cancer, it means she adds to the one about ovarian. People don't seem to understand that the world doesn't operate on facts alone, and that it's not some failing of logic to take "feelings" into account in a process trying to come to a logical outcome. Not doing that is how companies end up making tone deaf decisions that were supported by the facts in their narrow view, but not the actual reality of the world