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Yeah, there’s a good chance your B&W from the 80s sound better than any of Sonos’s speakers, and perhaps even better than modern B&W (since in modern B&W regres

Yeah, there’s a good chance your B&W from the 80s sound better than any of Sonos’s speakers, and perhaps even better than modern B&W (since in modern B&W regressed to less neutral speakers to demo a more sparkly sound in showrooms, even though it limits their versatility of optimal music). I’m completely with you about disliking this modern trend of disposable and brick-able “internet required” speakers combined with modern software culture’s bizarre love for this “service” model where you are expected to perpetually accept OTA updates to keep using your product — mandatory OTA updates that are only good until the company behind them stops caring about old products they’re no longer making money off of, and decides to brick or cripple them. But regarding speakers: There have definitely been advancements in modern speaker design. Probably the biggest advancement is the state-of-the-art science of psycho-acoustics, developed by the Canadian National Research Council, and later continued by the research division of Harman International. The results of this research has directly lead to better speakers by Harman Intl. companies (Revel, JBL, etc.) and throughout much (but not all) of the speaker industry. Psycho-acoustics informs speaker engineers how to objectively measure flaws in a speaker in ways that go far beyond an old fashioned on-axis frequency response plot (which tells you nearly nothing): measuring FR and others in a densely sampled sphere surface around a speaker in an anechoic chamber has been shown to provide almost all the info you need to evaluate and design a speaker. The end result of this is pretty amazing speakers for great prices. A $500 pair of JBL 308p Mk II will probably get you 80% of the way to audio perfection for most people, for example. A Neumann KH120A ($1300/pair) will get you maybe 90% to perfection[1], though at the expense of some bass extension which you may want to complement with a subwoofer. And then we have some exotic speaker designs made affordable; for example, you can get speakers with a RAAL Ribbon Tweeter from Ascend Acoustics which will blow away any other modern speaker costing 2-3x as much. A $2k - $3k speaker and subwoofer system from Ascend+Rythmik[2] will probably get you to 99% of the best sound quality in the world. For example, I’ve owned Bowers and Wilkins 702 S2 before discovering the science and innovations of some exotic components like the RAAL tweeter. This research later lead me to buy Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers, which while costing significantly less than the B&W 702 S2 sound many times better. (Bowers and Wilkins intentionally choose to ignore the science). The difference (to my ears) is truly astounding — the Ascends are truly in another league of quality and realism. And, the versatility improvement of neutral (flat frequency response, on and off axis) speakers over colored ones is amazing if you like listening to a wide range of music. [1] https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-120-a-g https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-120-a-g The Neumann KH120A is probably the most amazing sounding compact speaker I have ever heard. It is seriously mind blowing how amazing such a small speaker sounds, and how much quality bass it can put out. It also has some of the most impressively perfect scientific measurements I’ve ever seen (which you can review on the link above in the “data and diagrams” section). The only thing better is Ascend’s speakers with RAAL tweeters, or Genelec pro monitors (which are quite overpriced). [2] Example: Ascend Sierra Luna pair + Rythmik F12 will probably get you to 98% of audio perfection: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/luna/luna.html http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/luna/... http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.html http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/f12se.htm...

Unklejoe 7y ago
Okay, I'm curious now. I'm looking into the Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers and it looks like they're reasonably priced at around $2900/pair, which is right around my budget for a pair of high quality speakers. It seems like you've done a lot of research on this. Do you think these are some of the better speakers in that price range? I was looking at some Martin Logan ESL, but IDK if the electrostatic thing is a gimmick.
- electrograv 7y ago
  Yes I’ve done a ton of research here and have spent a lot of money on speakers (both with good and bad results), so I am happy to answer all your questions. In my opinion and from much research I believe Ascend speakers (with RAAL tweeters) and Rythmik servo subwoofers are very nearly the best in the world for probably the best price you’ll ever find. Others make comparable and perhaps even better options but they’re generally exponentially more expensive and harder to obtain (not always mass produced). Even some of the best within 2-3x the price aren’t as good. For example, before I tried Rythmik, the best subwoofer I found was from JL Audio. A JL E112 costs twice as much as a Rythmik F12, yet the Rythmik F12’s sound quality is a league beyond (due to their servo feedback loop tech, the accuracy and precision of their bass is just amazing). And the Rythmik F18 combines massive power (for movies) and incredible precision (for music) in the same product still far below the price of even JL Audio’s entry level stuff. And other than the Sierra RAAL Towers, my second favorite tower speakers are Revel F206. The Revel F206 are fantastic speakers, but despite costing much more, they still simply aren’t as good as the Sierra RAAL Towers! I have several speakers from Ascend, Rythmik (subwoofers), Revel, and Neumann. All of these brands are mindblowingly good, but Revel and Neumann are twice the price to get maybe only 90% as good as Ascend. Brands I’ve owned but sold or returned (due to poor performance vs price) include Bowers and Wilkins, KEF, Paradigm, Axiom, and some misc others. Martin Logan electrostats look very cool and also can sound very impressive but they have two huge limitations: (1) They’re far from neutral, which means they’ll make some music genres sound great and others worse. With neutral speakers, you can equalize them to suit your preference. But with colored (non neutral) speakers, you often cannot equalize them to fix their flaws (I could explain more why this is, if you want), so neutral is almost always the best choice. (2) They ONLY sound good if your head is perfectly on axis. If you are seated in precisely the right position and don’t move your head an inch, they can be quite nice, but it’s really annoying to have the sound degrade so horribly everywhere else in the room. But there is a certain magic to electrostats (when you are in that listening sweet spot) you don’t get from most regular speakers, so it’s a shame they have these flaws. Wouldn’t it be great if a speaker existed that combined the magic of electrostats with none of its flaws? As it turns out, the RAAL tweeter achieves just that! RAAL’s ribbon tweeter (used in Ascend’s high end speakers) achieves the best of all worlds: these are the only speakers I know that achieves that magical holographic treble precision (detail without being harsh) usually associated with electrostats, while ALSO achieving some of the widest and most consistent dispersion pattern of just about any speaker in the world. The RAAL tweeter is a planar diaphragm very much like an electrostat, so some of the same benefits are achieved but with exceptionally wide dispersion rather than exceptionally narrow. This amazing dispersion pattern not only makes for the most consistent sound throughout the room I’ve ever heard, but also increases sound quality on axis (because actually the majority of sound heard at any listening position comes from wall reflections, not direct sound). Note also that all ribbons are not created equal: most of them (e.g. Martin Logan’s lower end hybrid speakers) sound (and measure) worse than a high quality traditional “dome” tweeter. RAAL is fairly uniquely exceptional, and BTW this is reflected in their objective measurements (not just subjective descriptions of “magic”).

Unklejoe 7y ago

Okay, I'm curious now. I'm looking into the Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers and it looks like they're reasonably priced at around $2900/pair, which is right around my budget for a pair of high quality speakers. It seems like you've done a lot of research on this. Do you think these are some of the better speakers in that price range? I was looking at some Martin Logan ESL, but IDK if the electrostatic thing is a gimmick.

electrograv 7y ago
Yes I’ve done a ton of research here and have spent a lot of money on speakers (both with good and bad results), so I am happy to answer all your questions. In my opinion and from much research I believe Ascend speakers (with RAAL tweeters) and Rythmik servo subwoofers are very nearly the best in the world for probably the best price you’ll ever find. Others make comparable and perhaps even better options but they’re generally exponentially more expensive and harder to obtain (not always mass produced). Even some of the best within 2-3x the price aren’t as good. For example, before I tried Rythmik, the best subwoofer I found was from JL Audio. A JL E112 costs twice as much as a Rythmik F12, yet the Rythmik F12’s sound quality is a league beyond (due to their servo feedback loop tech, the accuracy and precision of their bass is just amazing). And the Rythmik F18 combines massive power (for movies) and incredible precision (for music) in the same product still far below the price of even JL Audio’s entry level stuff. And other than the Sierra RAAL Towers, my second favorite tower speakers are Revel F206. The Revel F206 are fantastic speakers, but despite costing much more, they still simply aren’t as good as the Sierra RAAL Towers! I have several speakers from Ascend, Rythmik (subwoofers), Revel, and Neumann. All of these brands are mindblowingly good, but Revel and Neumann are twice the price to get maybe only 90% as good as Ascend. Brands I’ve owned but sold or returned (due to poor performance vs price) include Bowers and Wilkins, KEF, Paradigm, Axiom, and some misc others. Martin Logan electrostats look very cool and also can sound very impressive but they have two huge limitations: (1) They’re far from neutral, which means they’ll make some music genres sound great and others worse. With neutral speakers, you can equalize them to suit your preference. But with colored (non neutral) speakers, you often cannot equalize them to fix their flaws (I could explain more why this is, if you want), so neutral is almost always the best choice. (2) They ONLY sound good if your head is perfectly on axis. If you are seated in precisely the right position and don’t move your head an inch, they can be quite nice, but it’s really annoying to have the sound degrade so horribly everywhere else in the room. But there is a certain magic to electrostats (when you are in that listening sweet spot) you don’t get from most regular speakers, so it’s a shame they have these flaws. Wouldn’t it be great if a speaker existed that combined the magic of electrostats with none of its flaws? As it turns out, the RAAL tweeter achieves just that! RAAL’s ribbon tweeter (used in Ascend’s high end speakers) achieves the best of all worlds: these are the only speakers I know that achieves that magical holographic treble precision (detail without being harsh) usually associated with electrostats, while ALSO achieving some of the widest and most consistent dispersion pattern of just about any speaker in the world. The RAAL tweeter is a planar diaphragm very much like an electrostat, so some of the same benefits are achieved but with exceptionally wide dispersion rather than exceptionally narrow. This amazing dispersion pattern not only makes for the most consistent sound throughout the room I’ve ever heard, but also increases sound quality on axis (because actually the majority of sound heard at any listening position comes from wall reflections, not direct sound). Note also that all ribbons are not created equal: most of them (e.g. Martin Logan’s lower end hybrid speakers) sound (and measure) worse than a high quality traditional “dome” tweeter. RAAL is fairly uniquely exceptional, and BTW this is reflected in their objective measurements (not just subjective descriptions of “magic”).