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One commonality between many successful dropouts like Zuckerberg and Gates is that they dropped out to do something specific, not because they were too lazy or

by gamble 16y ago

One commonality between many successful dropouts like Zuckerberg and Gates is that they dropped out to do something specific, not because they were too lazy or undisciplined to finish. Had the right opportunity not come along, I suspect many celebrity dropouts would have cruised to graduation.

chris11 16y ago
I'd also argue even including Gates in a list of typical college dropouts. He was taking graduate level computer science and mathematics classes his first and second year in college. Anyone who can take handle graduate level technical classes has shown a decent grasp of the undergraduate material.
NiloParedes 16y ago
That's an interesting point (re: doing something specific) which applies not just to college students. The truth is once you have clarity and vision, what ever it is you are doing seems like poor usage of your time. Having said, it's not easy arrive at that kind of clarity or vision.
- tensor 16y ago
  One can argue that there is no clarity of vision involved. Rather, for every individual like Gates who gets lucky with a good business opportunity, there may be many equally qualified individuals who do not get a lucky break with a good idea. It is always assumed that success and failure in business corresponds directly to skill. I doubt this assumption and suspect luck has a lot to do with it. Once you get your first success earning you several million, many doors open to you.
shadowfox 16y ago
Of course a lot of students who are lazy and undisciplined do not think that they are lazy and undisciplined
Jsarokin 16y ago
I like to think of it as they went out and made the opportunity happen for themselves instead of waiting for the opportunity to present itself.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  But they didn't drop out to find the opportunity, is his point. The uber-point is really, people who are bright enough to found $1B businesses are also bright enough to realize that you don't leave college until you have the idea moving along a good path. To put it another way, are there any $1B SW companies started by people who either didn't go to college or dropped out of college before they had started creating product for what would be this company? I honestly can't think of any (but that doesn't mean there aren't any -- and it should be easy to enumerate since there's probably only 20 or so billion dollar SW companies).
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    Twitter & Apple.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      I'll give you half-credit for Apple. Jobs was out of school, but Woz was still at UCB and withdrew after they had already begun selling (but before the company was officially formed). And I think half credit for Twitter. I don't know much about Twitter, but it appears Dorsey was still in college when they started Twitter. But in any case two pretty good examples.
      - nostrademons 16y ago
        If you count Woz as "still at UCB" because he was on a leave of absence, then you have to count Gates as "still at Harvard" and Page & Brin as "still at Stanford" even today. Officially, they never actually dropped out of their universities - they just remain on perpetual leave of absence, and could go back next semester if they wanted to. Woz was at HP because he didn't have money for the next semester of Berkeley, and he thought he would always be at HP, and even after Apple started selling things and went public, he remained officially on a leave of absence, and actually did go back after his plane crash. It's actually really hard to drop out or fail out of an elite college - I tried a couple times when I was still in undergrad. They always want you to take a leave of absence because then you don't show up in the dropout statistics that drag down their U.S. News rankings. This is why it's not really all that risky to drop out of college; you can always go back and pick up where you left off, but you'll have a much better idea of why you're there. I was definitely thinking about Evan Williams for Twitter. He dropped out of college because he always knew he wanted to be an entrepreneur, but had no idea what sort of company he would start. I don't really know about Dorsey and Biz Stone's backgrounds.
kithal 16y ago
In fact, I'd imagine Zuckerberg would be better off both personally and professionally had he finished his undergraduate education. Moreover, I think it's interesting to think if Facebook would be different had it been founded by post-graduation Zuckerberg. Better? Worse? I bet the Facebook experience would be richer had Zuckerberg been more mature when he crafted the initial vision.
- jaxn 16y ago
  That is a pretty bold claim. It sounds ridiculous to me. Also, how can someone consumed with an idea finish school? It is that singular purpose that drive Zuckerberg to succeed. You can't just put that on hold and finish up a degree.
- dmor 16y ago
  Both of these claims are tossed out as random assertions with no support. Why would Zuckerberg be better off if he had finished undergrad? Why would the Facebook experience have been richer if crafter by a post-college founder?
- klbarry 16y ago
  That is one of the most absurd claims I have ever heard on HN. However, I do not think it should be downvoted, because it was made in good faith.
exit 16y ago
why did steve jobs drop out?
- hyperbovine 16y ago
  To figure out who he was and what he wanted in life.
  - foljs 16y ago
    i.e to bum it for a year in India.
- morganw 16y ago
  http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html "all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it."
  - mitko 16y ago
    but he continued listening lectures - he just stopped paying. Apparently he was smart enough to realize that the knowledge is worth much more than the degree.

by gamble 16y ago

chris11 16y ago

I'd also argue even including Gates in a list of typical college dropouts. He was taking graduate level computer science and mathematics classes his first and second year in college. Anyone who can take handle graduate level technical classes has shown a decent grasp of the undergraduate material.

NiloParedes 16y ago

That's an interesting point (re: doing something specific) which applies not just to college students. The truth is once you have clarity and vision, what ever it is you are doing seems like poor usage of your time. Having said, it's not easy arrive at that kind of clarity or vision.

tensor 16y ago
One can argue that there is no clarity of vision involved. Rather, for every individual like Gates who gets lucky with a good business opportunity, there may be many equally qualified individuals who do not get a lucky break with a good idea. It is always assumed that success and failure in business corresponds directly to skill. I doubt this assumption and suspect luck has a lot to do with it. Once you get your first success earning you several million, many doors open to you.

shadowfox 16y ago

Of course a lot of students who are lazy and undisciplined do not think that they are lazy and undisciplined

Jsarokin 16y ago

I like to think of it as they went out and made the opportunity happen for themselves instead of waiting for the opportunity to present itself.

kenjackson 16y ago
But they didn't drop out to find the opportunity, is his point. The uber-point is really, people who are bright enough to found $1B businesses are also bright enough to realize that you don't leave college until you have the idea moving along a good path. To put it another way, are there any $1B SW companies started by people who either didn't go to college or dropped out of college before they had started creating product for what would be this company? I honestly can't think of any (but that doesn't mean there aren't any -- and it should be easy to enumerate since there's probably only 20 or so billion dollar SW companies).
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Twitter & Apple.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    I'll give you half-credit for Apple. Jobs was out of school, but Woz was still at UCB and withdrew after they had already begun selling (but before the company was officially formed). And I think half credit for Twitter. I don't know much about Twitter, but it appears Dorsey was still in college when they started Twitter. But in any case two pretty good examples.
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      If you count Woz as "still at UCB" because he was on a leave of absence, then you have to count Gates as "still at Harvard" and Page & Brin as "still at Stanford" even today. Officially, they never actually dropped out of their universities - they just remain on perpetual leave of absence, and could go back next semester if they wanted to. Woz was at HP because he didn't have money for the next semester of Berkeley, and he thought he would always be at HP, and even after Apple started selling things and went public, he remained officially on a leave of absence, and actually did go back after his plane crash. It's actually really hard to drop out or fail out of an elite college - I tried a couple times when I was still in undergrad. They always want you to take a leave of absence because then you don't show up in the dropout statistics that drag down their U.S. News rankings. This is why it's not really all that risky to drop out of college; you can always go back and pick up where you left off, but you'll have a much better idea of why you're there. I was definitely thinking about Evan Williams for Twitter. He dropped out of college because he always knew he wanted to be an entrepreneur, but had no idea what sort of company he would start. I don't really know about Dorsey and Biz Stone's backgrounds.

kithal 16y ago

In fact, I'd imagine Zuckerberg would be better off both personally and professionally had he finished his undergraduate education. Moreover, I think it's interesting to think if Facebook would be different had it been founded by post-graduation Zuckerberg. Better? Worse? I bet the Facebook experience would be richer had Zuckerberg been more mature when he crafted the initial vision.

jaxn 16y ago
That is a pretty bold claim. It sounds ridiculous to me. Also, how can someone consumed with an idea finish school? It is that singular purpose that drive Zuckerberg to succeed. You can't just put that on hold and finish up a degree.
dmor 16y ago
Both of these claims are tossed out as random assertions with no support. Why would Zuckerberg be better off if he had finished undergrad? Why would the Facebook experience have been richer if crafter by a post-college founder?
klbarry 16y ago
That is one of the most absurd claims I have ever heard on HN. However, I do not think it should be downvoted, because it was made in good faith.

exit 16y ago

why did steve jobs drop out?

hyperbovine 16y ago
To figure out who he was and what he wanted in life.
- foljs 16y ago
  i.e to bum it for a year in India.
morganw 16y ago
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html "all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it."
- mitko 16y ago
  but he continued listening lectures - he just stopped paying. Apparently he was smart enough to realize that the knowledge is worth much more than the degree.