5 ms·

I think the core difference is that AA is supportive, whereas this measure is punitive. Since we're all dealing w finite resources you could argue they're the s

I think the core difference is that AA is supportive, whereas this measure is punitive. Since we're all dealing w finite resources you could argue they're the same but it doesn't seem as easy an argument.

thu2111 7y ago
AA is the same thing, surely. Creating opportunities for people based on some identity characteristic is invariably the same thing as denying those opportunities to others - resources, positions, and opportunities are in the instant zero sum games (not in the long run, but decisions on how to allocate opportunities aren't made over the long run but in the moment).
corporate_shi11 7y ago
Imagine if I owned a country club and it came out that I'm preferentially choosing people of one race over another, say actively excluding black people. How do you think that would be received? That's literally what affirmative action is.
- notacoward 7y ago
  > That's literally what affirmative action is. No, it's not. Affirmative action does not prevent any company from hiring any white/male/etc. people. All it does is preclude them from hiring only such people when there are qualified minority applicants. Equating a preference (even a mandatory one) to a total exclusion is specious, as is equating situations with and without specific ability-to-perform requirements. It's a false analogy.
  - corporate_shi11 7y ago
    In my post I said "preferentially choosing people of one race over another". Sure the hypothetical Country Club lets in some blacks, but it really sets a much higher bar for them. It sets a lower bar for other races. That is affirmative action. Don't believe it? Look at the data unearthed from admissions data provided during the Harvard AA lawsuit. Asians must pass a much higher bar than certain other groups. The question is, if it's not ok for the Country Club, why is it ok for Universities?
    - notacoward 7y ago
      You also said "excluding black people". Don't gaslight.
      - corporate_shi11 7y ago
        Not trying to gaslight, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. In this hypothetical we're not excluding all, just some. The point stands and it is revealing.

thu2111 7y ago

AA is the same thing, surely. Creating opportunities for people based on some identity characteristic is invariably the same thing as denying those opportunities to others - resources, positions, and opportunities are in the instant zero sum games (not in the long run, but decisions on how to allocate opportunities aren't made over the long run but in the moment).

corporate_shi11 7y ago

Imagine if I owned a country club and it came out that I'm preferentially choosing people of one race over another, say actively excluding black people. How do you think that would be received? That's literally what affirmative action is.

notacoward 7y ago
> That's literally what affirmative action is. No, it's not. Affirmative action does not prevent any company from hiring any white/male/etc. people. All it does is preclude them from hiring only such people when there are qualified minority applicants. Equating a preference (even a mandatory one) to a total exclusion is specious, as is equating situations with and without specific ability-to-perform requirements. It's a false analogy.
- corporate_shi11 7y ago
  In my post I said "preferentially choosing people of one race over another". Sure the hypothetical Country Club lets in some blacks, but it really sets a much higher bar for them. It sets a lower bar for other races. That is affirmative action. Don't believe it? Look at the data unearthed from admissions data provided during the Harvard AA lawsuit. Asians must pass a much higher bar than certain other groups. The question is, if it's not ok for the Country Club, why is it ok for Universities?
  - notacoward 7y ago
    You also said "excluding black people". Don't gaslight.
    - corporate_shi11 7y ago
      Not trying to gaslight, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. In this hypothetical we're not excluding all, just some. The point stands and it is revealing.