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Could the delay, in part, be there are more checks and balances that are thoroughly checked? Likewise the populations and level of development are at very diffe

by loceng 7y ago

Could the delay, in part, be there are more checks and balances that are thoroughly checked? Likewise the populations and level of development are at very different levels not only with population size to compare but also with the amount of workers in different positions there will be in China compared to in the US and Canada for development related work. I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.

domjones 7y ago
Just want to add something to that 68% number: quite a few people get more schooling after trade school, there is something like "master of trade" or others go to university.
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
>I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example. That's because in countries like Germany or Denmark there's a shortage of skilled certified doers like plumbers and electricians so they're paid handsomely and since devs aren't paid as handsomely there as in SV, some prefer to go into trade as it can be more lucrative than tech in those markets.
mytailorisrich 7y ago
There is a widespread tendency to do things quickly in China and it's not (only) because of absence of checks and balances. Compared to the UK you notice that when you go to the bank: Clerks work fast, the supermarket: Cashier will scan items faster than you can put them into your bags, local MacDonald's: Your food is ready fast. It works the other way round: Chinese who visit the UK often comment that everything is slower.
- loceng 7y ago
  It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher. You're get your job but you have to be extremely efficient, as efficient as humanly possible, or you're going to be replaced - and if not by a person, eventually by automation. I've been to China once, traveling from HK with to a massive highly dense multi-floor shopping mall, and then went to a 20+ story hotel fully converted into a massive massage/spa. For two people: 45 minute foot massage coming with some fruit and a drink, followed by an hour long full body massage, including tip, cost $36 CAD. Both environments were really incredible to experience, very opposite to how spacious our malls our, and how factory line feeling the massage hotel was in comparison. I'm still undecided which model is better - obviously though if both models are viable in an ecosystem then unless there are controls in place for quality and space requirements, then the lower price will win out competitive price wise, and cause strain on the other model's viability.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    > It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher. I think the "huge population" aspect is overdone when discussing China. If I apply for a job at my local supermarket, the competition I face has little to do with the fact that the UK's population is 65 million vs 1.4 billion in China. Is the competition in the US 5x fiercer than in the UK because the population is 5x higher? No because there are also more jobs and the number of people within 'reach' of a given job is likely about the same irrespective of the country's total population.
    - solotronics 7y ago
      I think you would instead look at population density of that area. In many places the US has a lower population density than the UK.
    - arcticfox 7y ago
      You make a good point, but literally every fast food place near me has a 'Help Wanted' advertisement posted these days. I have the sense that they take anyone they can get, whereas in an industrializing society, the competition for those types of jobs (for recent agrarian -> city immigrants) would be pretty fierce. Unemployment rate might be a better metric, but 'employment rate at food employee level or higher' would be the best I guess.
yorwba 7y ago
56.3% of Germans had completed an apprenticeship or trade school in 2017, a slight drop from 57.8% in 2008. University degrees are gaining. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Education-Research-Culture/Educational-Level/Tables/educational-attainment-population-germany.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Educat...

by loceng 7y ago

domjones 7y ago

Just want to add something to that 68% number: quite a few people get more schooling after trade school, there is something like "master of trade" or others go to university.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

>I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example. That's because in countries like Germany or Denmark there's a shortage of skilled certified doers like plumbers and electricians so they're paid handsomely and since devs aren't paid as handsomely there as in SV, some prefer to go into trade as it can be more lucrative than tech in those markets.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

There is a widespread tendency to do things quickly in China and it's not (only) because of absence of checks and balances. Compared to the UK you notice that when you go to the bank: Clerks work fast, the supermarket: Cashier will scan items faster than you can put them into your bags, local MacDonald's: Your food is ready fast. It works the other way round: Chinese who visit the UK often comment that everything is slower.

loceng 7y ago
It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher. You're get your job but you have to be extremely efficient, as efficient as humanly possible, or you're going to be replaced - and if not by a person, eventually by automation. I've been to China once, traveling from HK with to a massive highly dense multi-floor shopping mall, and then went to a 20+ story hotel fully converted into a massive massage/spa. For two people: 45 minute foot massage coming with some fruit and a drink, followed by an hour long full body massage, including tip, cost $36 CAD. Both environments were really incredible to experience, very opposite to how spacious our malls our, and how factory line feeling the massage hotel was in comparison. I'm still undecided which model is better - obviously though if both models are viable in an ecosystem then unless there are controls in place for quality and space requirements, then the lower price will win out competitive price wise, and cause strain on the other model's viability.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  > It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher. I think the "huge population" aspect is overdone when discussing China. If I apply for a job at my local supermarket, the competition I face has little to do with the fact that the UK's population is 65 million vs 1.4 billion in China. Is the competition in the US 5x fiercer than in the UK because the population is 5x higher? No because there are also more jobs and the number of people within 'reach' of a given job is likely about the same irrespective of the country's total population.
  - solotronics 7y ago
    I think you would instead look at population density of that area. In many places the US has a lower population density than the UK.
  - arcticfox 7y ago
    You make a good point, but literally every fast food place near me has a 'Help Wanted' advertisement posted these days. I have the sense that they take anyone they can get, whereas in an industrializing society, the competition for those types of jobs (for recent agrarian -> city immigrants) would be pretty fierce. Unemployment rate might be a better metric, but 'employment rate at food employee level or higher' would be the best I guess.

yorwba 7y ago

56.3% of Germans had completed an apprenticeship or trade school in 2017, a slight drop from 57.8% in 2008. University degrees are gaining. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Education-Research-Culture/Educational-Level/Tables/educational-attainment-population-germany.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Educat...