5 ms·

Setting aside quality assurance and risk assessment/mitigation, I'm seriously impressed with the speed in which they construct complex infrastructure. The are

Setting aside quality assurance and risk assessment/mitigation, I'm seriously impressed with the speed in which they construct complex infrastructure. The are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well.

yostrovs 7y ago
Viruses seem to start and spread faster using the complex infrastructure. This is yet another reason to prefer independent cars to herd-like public transport.
- blackrock 7y ago
  I had to laugh at this comment, since it’s quite true. So would you prefer to spend a week driving from Los Angeles to New York, instead of spending 5 hours flying, in a herd-like tin can, crammed full of people, and re-breathing the same recycled air?
  - blattimwind 7y ago
    When a pandemic or epidemy is in full swing the answer seems rather obvious.
  - stephen_g 7y ago
    Planes don’t recycle air that much. While there is some recirculation, outside is constantly pumped in (either bleed air from the engines, or from electric compressors on the 787) and there’s a valve that lets air out at the correct rate to maintain the desired cabin pressure. I can’t remember the exact timing, but think I recall it being something like every 10 minutes or so that all the cabin air is replaced.
  - AzzieElbab 7y ago
    Why does this have to be about planes? I fly 3-4 times a year, I take subway every day.
  - yostrovs 7y ago
    Here on HN there's a regular argument for trains as an alternative to cars. Seeing how I end up using the train once in a while, I'm always bothered by the lack of cleanliness of public trains and how people come and go, touch things, leave crumbs, etc., and then I have to sit and touch those very places. Planes vs cars is not really a debate, as certainly for many destinations cars don't make sense.
- HenryKissinger 7y ago
  Not everyone can afford a car. If you want fewer people to use public transit, pay your low earning employees more so they can buy a car.
Proven 7y ago
Has it occurred to you that in a free market economy these beds may already have been built? Are you impressed by reports of patients showing concerning symptoms being turned away from government-run hospitals? There's really just one lesson and that is anything built by a government is on average inferior to the same thing built by private sector. Maybe the China government is less wasteful than the US government. The solution to optimizing the both is to privatize everything. Why should one be impressed by a less bad choice?
- yorwba 7y ago
  The free market would never build this without the government paying, because most patients can't exactly afford to pay for their share of the construction costs. For-profit hospitals are incentivized to turn away patients showing concerning symptoms to prevent them from infecting their paying customers. There are many lessons that can be drawn from this, but "privatize everything" is not one of them.
yorwba 7y ago
This is exactly the opposite of complex infrastructure. They're reducing a hospital down to the essentials: beds under a roof. If it weren't winter, they could've gotten away with just using tents, too.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  I'm still not convinced they aren't just building a simple morgue... or perhaps even just a large covered grave. ...all we see so far is a TON of excavators digging a hole.
  - GoodJokes 7y ago
    Ah yes, the classic Hackernews Chinese Evil Boogeyman take backed up by absolutely nothing.
  - a_tractor 7y ago
    Almost looks like a dance routine... with excavators.
- socceroos 7y ago
  Yes, this isn't necessarily what we'd call a 'hospital', nevertheless it happens very quickly. My country would struggle to erect a paper bag on a patch of dirt in 6 months. There are additional examples of China's construction prowess that perhaps better represent the point I was making.
blackrock 7y ago
I always found the video of them constructing a 30 story hotel in just 15 days to be quite fascinating. [1] The modules were assembled off-site, and delivered in sequence, for final assembly onsite. But I haven’t heard of any further news from the company (BSB I think), for a few years, that I assume the government must’ve shut down their business model. Perhaps for poor quality, or for design defects. But the construction technique is probably worthy of further study and refinement. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg7F7nG0PKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg7F7nG0PKw
- Retric 7y ago
  I would swap that wording, the modules where constructed offsite and assembled in 15 days on a pre built foundation. But it’s unclear when construction began and the video hit 360 hours before it finished, making this even less interesting. Also, by comparison the 102 story Empire State Building took 410 days to construct in the 1930’s including the foundation. So under the most generous assumptions it’s about 8x as fast.
rntksi 7y ago
Keep in mind that this period is also Chinese New Year in China, and workers are mostly expecting time off (sometimes, their only time off of the year)
- fma 7y ago
  This is in Wuhan. The city is locked down...they aren't going anywhere. Might as well make some money. By law anyone who works during holidays get paid 3x their wages for overtime.
  - ksec 7y ago
    >This is in Wuhan. The city is locked down...they aren't going anywhere. Far from it. They were already fleeing before the lockdown.
baybal2 7y ago
> Setting aside quality assurance and risk assessment/mitigation, I'm seriously impressed with the speed in which they construct complex infrastructure. Not only infrastructure, it's just everything here glides like on butter in comparison to my experience in Canada and US, both in public and private spheres. My experience making business in Canada: drag and head current in everything. That's a part of the culture: to complicate things, add friction, and "we don't know how it will go, so we wouldn't do anything" attitude In the West, people feel to have something almost bordering on subconscious compulsion to impede things, and add friction to anything around. From one side, your people have a burning desire to show concern, and involve themselves into everything, and on another, they have no real intention to do a thing beyond that. > The are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well. The biggest impediment you have in the West is the MBA culture everywhere. Everybody tries to speak like a banker or lawyer, and even think of that as something good! How many fund managers do you need to define a strategy how to write a hello world app? You know the answer already, but these people will simply not take no as an answer, and will not let things go until they get it.
- loceng 7y ago
  Could the delay, in part, be there are more checks and balances that are thoroughly checked? Likewise the populations and level of development are at very different levels not only with population size to compare but also with the amount of workers in different positions there will be in China compared to in the US and Canada for development related work. I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.
  - domjones 7y ago
    Just want to add something to that 68% number: quite a few people get more schooling after trade school, there is something like "master of trade" or others go to university.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
chewz 7y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship
greedo 7y ago
It's a field hospital, not a modern building. Imagine MASH...
Markoff 7y ago
it's just one floor field hospital, there was even scheme posted in Chinese media, can't find it right now, went through too many stories https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/24/7bac56ac-3e50-11ea-a16e-39b824591591_972x_230846.JPG https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode...

yostrovs 7y ago

Viruses seem to start and spread faster using the complex infrastructure. This is yet another reason to prefer independent cars to herd-like public transport.

blackrock 7y ago
I had to laugh at this comment, since it’s quite true. So would you prefer to spend a week driving from Los Angeles to New York, instead of spending 5 hours flying, in a herd-like tin can, crammed full of people, and re-breathing the same recycled air?
- blattimwind 7y ago
  When a pandemic or epidemy is in full swing the answer seems rather obvious.
- stephen_g 7y ago
  Planes don’t recycle air that much. While there is some recirculation, outside is constantly pumped in (either bleed air from the engines, or from electric compressors on the 787) and there’s a valve that lets air out at the correct rate to maintain the desired cabin pressure. I can’t remember the exact timing, but think I recall it being something like every 10 minutes or so that all the cabin air is replaced.
- AzzieElbab 7y ago
  Why does this have to be about planes? I fly 3-4 times a year, I take subway every day.
- yostrovs 7y ago
  Here on HN there's a regular argument for trains as an alternative to cars. Seeing how I end up using the train once in a while, I'm always bothered by the lack of cleanliness of public trains and how people come and go, touch things, leave crumbs, etc., and then I have to sit and touch those very places. Planes vs cars is not really a debate, as certainly for many destinations cars don't make sense.
HenryKissinger 7y ago
Not everyone can afford a car. If you want fewer people to use public transit, pay your low earning employees more so they can buy a car.

Proven 7y ago

Has it occurred to you that in a free market economy these beds may already have been built? Are you impressed by reports of patients showing concerning symptoms being turned away from government-run hospitals? There's really just one lesson and that is anything built by a government is on average inferior to the same thing built by private sector. Maybe the China government is less wasteful than the US government. The solution to optimizing the both is to privatize everything. Why should one be impressed by a less bad choice?

yorwba 7y ago
The free market would never build this without the government paying, because most patients can't exactly afford to pay for their share of the construction costs. For-profit hospitals are incentivized to turn away patients showing concerning symptoms to prevent them from infecting their paying customers. There are many lessons that can be drawn from this, but "privatize everything" is not one of them.

yorwba 7y ago

This is exactly the opposite of complex infrastructure. They're reducing a hospital down to the essentials: beds under a roof. If it weren't winter, they could've gotten away with just using tents, too.

koheripbal 7y ago
I'm still not convinced they aren't just building a simple morgue... or perhaps even just a large covered grave. ...all we see so far is a TON of excavators digging a hole.
- GoodJokes 7y ago
  Ah yes, the classic Hackernews Chinese Evil Boogeyman take backed up by absolutely nothing.
- a_tractor 7y ago
  Almost looks like a dance routine... with excavators.
socceroos 7y ago
Yes, this isn't necessarily what we'd call a 'hospital', nevertheless it happens very quickly. My country would struggle to erect a paper bag on a patch of dirt in 6 months. There are additional examples of China's construction prowess that perhaps better represent the point I was making.

blackrock 7y ago

I always found the video of them constructing a 30 story hotel in just 15 days to be quite fascinating. [1] The modules were assembled off-site, and delivered in sequence, for final assembly onsite. But I haven’t heard of any further news from the company (BSB I think), for a few years, that I assume the government must’ve shut down their business model. Perhaps for poor quality, or for design defects. But the construction technique is probably worthy of further study and refinement. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg7F7nG0PKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg7F7nG0PKw

Retric 7y ago
I would swap that wording, the modules where constructed offsite and assembled in 15 days on a pre built foundation. But it’s unclear when construction began and the video hit 360 hours before it finished, making this even less interesting. Also, by comparison the 102 story Empire State Building took 410 days to construct in the 1930’s including the foundation. So under the most generous assumptions it’s about 8x as fast.

rntksi 7y ago

Keep in mind that this period is also Chinese New Year in China, and workers are mostly expecting time off (sometimes, their only time off of the year)

fma 7y ago
This is in Wuhan. The city is locked down...they aren't going anywhere. Might as well make some money. By law anyone who works during holidays get paid 3x their wages for overtime.
- ksec 7y ago
  >This is in Wuhan. The city is locked down...they aren't going anywhere. Far from it. They were already fleeing before the lockdown.

baybal2 7y ago

> Setting aside quality assurance and risk assessment/mitigation, I'm seriously impressed with the speed in which they construct complex infrastructure. Not only infrastructure, it's just everything here glides like on butter in comparison to my experience in Canada and US, both in public and private spheres. My experience making business in Canada: drag and head current in everything. That's a part of the culture: to complicate things, add friction, and "we don't know how it will go, so we wouldn't do anything" attitude In the West, people feel to have something almost bordering on subconscious compulsion to impede things, and add friction to anything around. From one side, your people have a burning desire to show concern, and involve themselves into everything, and on another, they have no real intention to do a thing beyond that. > The are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well. The biggest impediment you have in the West is the MBA culture everywhere. Everybody tries to speak like a banker or lawyer, and even think of that as something good! How many fund managers do you need to define a strategy how to write a hello world app? You know the answer already, but these people will simply not take no as an answer, and will not let things go until they get it.

loceng 7y ago
Could the delay, in part, be there are more checks and balances that are thoroughly checked? Likewise the populations and level of development are at very different levels not only with population size to compare but also with the amount of workers in different positions there will be in China compared to in the US and Canada for development related work. I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.
- domjones 7y ago
  Just want to add something to that 68% number: quite a few people get more schooling after trade school, there is something like "master of trade" or others go to university.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago

chewz 7y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

greedo 7y ago

It's a field hospital, not a modern building. Imagine MASH...

Markoff 7y ago

it's just one floor field hospital, there was even scheme posted in Chinese media, can't find it right now, went through too many stories https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2020/01/24/7bac56ac-3e50-11ea-a16e-39b824591591_972x_230846.JPG https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode...