5 ms·

EFF Finds Evidence Of Over 40,000 Intelligence Violations By The FBI

169 points by DanielRibeiro 16y ago

coderdude 16y ago
The source: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-detailing-fbi-intelligence https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-de...
drivebyacct2 16y ago
The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago when I was debating this case in policy debate in highschool. I fought against it then, and no one gave a shit. Doesn't surprise me that it has continued to occur.
- GHFigs 16y ago
  The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago Source?
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    Well, I'm assuming they're talking about NSLs, which was my case specifically. Wish I still had a copy of the case in front of me. I'll see what I can dig up. From the FBI themselves (published March 2007): "In the period covered by the report, the number of NSL requests has ranged from approximately 40,000 to 60,000 per year and we have requested information on less than 20,000 persons per year." http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-national-security-letters-3 http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-national-s... Note that NSLs require NO court oversight, though sometimes are required to "justified" after the fact. They can be issued on the spot by field agents, and generally, a single NSL is served on a group of people, they're not limited to individuals. Furthermore, the NSL includes a gag order that prohibits you from disclosing that your privacy is being violated by the use of one.
    - uxp 16y ago
      The article on Friday[1] about the ISP director who challenged his NSL mentions in both the Reddit AMA and his 27c3 talk that between about 2004 and 2008, the FBI served about 200,000 NSLs. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208093 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208093
    - GHFigs 16y ago
      I'm assuming they're talking about NSLs They're are not talking about the number of NSLs issued, they're talking about potential violations of the law, some of which involve NSLs. That's the confusion. Incidentally, the link you posted is the FBI responding to the same OIG report that the EFF references.
GHFigs 16y ago
The "40,000" figure isn't any less made up than it was two weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2159444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2159444
- Bud 16y ago
  I think I'd much sooner take EFF's word than the FBI's word, about the number. The FBI, most especially under GWB, lies for a living. EFF tells the truth for a living. I think we can all agree there was rampant, epidemic lawbreaking in the Bush Administration, though, and that it appears to be continuing under Obama. Massaging the exact number smacks of an effort to distract.
  - danenania 16y ago
    I wonder if Obama is ever going to grow a pair and stand up for what's right. I've never liked him much politically, but I've always had the feeling that deep down he wants to do the right thing. He's just too damn caught up in being a politician. Perhaps if he gets re-elected?
    - nika 16y ago
      I believe he's doing exactly what he wanted to do. He had both houses and could have reversed the TSA, cancelled the PATRIOT act, closed guantanimo, ended warrantless wiretapping and spying on americans, etc. But he has done the opposite. I am curious why you think that he would do better if he got re-elected?
      - danenania 16y ago
        I don't really think he would, it's just a vague hope that maybe he'll remember he has a soul or something and actually try to be what he portrays himself as instead of a politically motivated con man. Maybe it's possible he'll come around. I feel like Egypt has changed him in some way. He actually took a minor stand against the establishment. It was timid, but first steps often are.
ghjktykyu 16y ago
Good news to tell you: Yes , Trust your eyes! it's really!!! , 100% original , come with international warranty! free shipping , P A Y P A L accepted! Fast and door to door delivery! If necessary, please input: ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== Apple mac books: $280- 520 U S D Iphone 4: $260 Ipad 64gb + wifi + 3G : $250 New Ipod touch 64gb: $120 D ell Alienware M17x: $700 D ell Alienware M15x: $500 MacBook Pro ( MC024 LL/A )17-inch 2.66GHz Intel Core i7: $510 MacBook Pro ( MC373 LL/A )15.4-inch 2.66GHz Intel Core i7: $485 BlackBerry Pearl 3G 9105: $350 ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== Nikon F 6 - SLR camera - 35mm: $685 Nikon D3000 (with 18mm-55mm and 55mm-200mm lens): $315 Nikon D3X : $985 Canon EOS 5D Mark: $565 Playstation 3 PS3 Metal Gear Solid 4 80GB Bund: $220 Free shipping , P A Y P A L accepted! Fast and door to door delivery! If necessary, please ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== ----- ~ ¤ ╭⌒╮ ╭⌒╮ ╭⌒╭⌒╮╭⌒╮～╭⌒╮ ,））））,''）~~ ,''~） ╱◥█◣ ╱◥█◣ ｜田｜田｜｜田｜田｜====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== ╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬
jdp23 16y ago
Just a reminder: the House is voting on Patriot Act renewal Monday at 6:30 p.m. Eastern. Please call your representative! There are plenty of other ways you can help too. Get FISA Right's action alert: http://bit.ly/feb13aa http://bit.ly/feb13aa EFF: https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=461 https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=Us...
aantthony 16y ago
What a surprise.
zuggywugg 16y ago
What's the big deal, let them spy on us. We're no terrorists, let them violate our civil rights and lets turn a blind eye on this subject once and forever. 15 comments and you're getting nowhere fast. Did you hear? Lindsay Lohan stole a $2500 necklace!!! The world is a horrible place now.

169 points by DanielRibeiro 16y ago

The source: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-detailing-fbi-intelligence https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/eff-releases-report-de...

drivebyacct2 16y ago

The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago when I was debating this case in policy debate in highschool. I fought against it then, and no one gave a shit. Doesn't surprise me that it has continued to occur.

GHFigs 16y ago
The number was 40,000 4-5 years ago Source?
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  Well, I'm assuming they're talking about NSLs, which was my case specifically. Wish I still had a copy of the case in front of me. I'll see what I can dig up. From the FBI themselves (published March 2007): "In the period covered by the report, the number of NSL requests has ranged from approximately 40,000 to 60,000 per year and we have requested information on less than 20,000 persons per year." http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-national-security-letters-3 http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-fbis-use-of-national-s... Note that NSLs require NO court oversight, though sometimes are required to "justified" after the fact. They can be issued on the spot by field agents, and generally, a single NSL is served on a group of people, they're not limited to individuals. Furthermore, the NSL includes a gag order that prohibits you from disclosing that your privacy is being violated by the use of one.
  - uxp 16y ago
    The article on Friday[1] about the ISP director who challenged his NSL mentions in both the Reddit AMA and his 27c3 talk that between about 2004 and 2008, the FBI served about 200,000 NSLs. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208093 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208093
  - GHFigs 16y ago
    I'm assuming they're talking about NSLs They're are not talking about the number of NSLs issued, they're talking about potential violations of the law, some of which involve NSLs. That's the confusion. Incidentally, the link you posted is the FBI responding to the same OIG report that the EFF references.

GHFigs 16y ago

The "40,000" figure isn't any less made up than it was two weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2159444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2159444

Bud 16y ago
I think I'd much sooner take EFF's word than the FBI's word, about the number. The FBI, most especially under GWB, lies for a living. EFF tells the truth for a living. I think we can all agree there was rampant, epidemic lawbreaking in the Bush Administration, though, and that it appears to be continuing under Obama. Massaging the exact number smacks of an effort to distract.
- danenania 16y ago
  I wonder if Obama is ever going to grow a pair and stand up for what's right. I've never liked him much politically, but I've always had the feeling that deep down he wants to do the right thing. He's just too damn caught up in being a politician. Perhaps if he gets re-elected?
  - nika 16y ago
    I believe he's doing exactly what he wanted to do. He had both houses and could have reversed the TSA, cancelled the PATRIOT act, closed guantanimo, ended warrantless wiretapping and spying on americans, etc. But he has done the opposite. I am curious why you think that he would do better if he got re-elected?
    - danenania 16y ago
      I don't really think he would, it's just a vague hope that maybe he'll remember he has a soul or something and actually try to be what he portrays himself as instead of a politically motivated con man. Maybe it's possible he'll come around. I feel like Egypt has changed him in some way. He actually took a minor stand against the establishment. It was timid, but first steps often are.

ghjktykyu 16y ago

Good news to tell you: Yes , Trust your eyes! it's really!!! , 100% original , come with international warranty! free shipping , P A Y P A L accepted! Fast and door to door delivery! If necessary, please input: ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== Apple mac books: $280- 520 U S D Iphone 4: $260 Ipad 64gb + wifi + 3G : $250 New Ipod touch 64gb: $120 D ell Alienware M17x: $700 D ell Alienware M15x: $500 MacBook Pro ( MC024 LL/A )17-inch 2.66GHz Intel Core i7: $510 MacBook Pro ( MC373 LL/A )15.4-inch 2.66GHz Intel Core i7: $485 BlackBerry Pearl 3G 9105: $350 ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== Nikon F 6 - SLR camera - 35mm: $685 Nikon D3000 (with 18mm-55mm and 55mm-200mm lens): $315 Nikon D3X : $985 Canon EOS 5D Mark: $565 Playstation 3 PS3 Metal Gear Solid 4 80GB Bund: $220 Free shipping , P A Y P A L accepted! Fast and door to door delivery! If necessary, please ====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== ----- ~ ¤ ╭⌒╮ ╭⌒╮ ╭⌒╭⌒╮╭⌒╮～╭⌒╮ ,））））,''）~~ ,''~） ╱◥█◣ ╱◥█◣ ｜田｜田｜｜田｜田｜====== ( http://u.ly/73I http://u.ly/73I )==== ╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬╬

jdp23 16y ago

Just a reminder: the House is voting on Patriot Act renewal Monday at 6:30 p.m. Eastern. Please call your representative! There are plenty of other ways you can help too. Get FISA Right's action alert: http://bit.ly/feb13aa http://bit.ly/feb13aa EFF: https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=461 https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=Us...

aantthony 16y ago

What a surprise.

zuggywugg 16y ago

What's the big deal, let them spy on us. We're no terrorists, let them violate our civil rights and lets turn a blind eye on this subject once and forever. 15 comments and you're getting nowhere fast. Did you hear? Lindsay Lohan stole a $2500 necklace!!! The world is a horrible place now.