5 ms·

> The ability to leave your job at 5pm is very much a benefit, one that 99% of startups will never offer. And one can also argue that 99% of startups aren't wo

by j_baker 16y ago

> The ability to leave your job at 5pm is very much a benefit, one that 99% of startups will never offer. And one can also argue that 99% of startups aren't worth working for. It's incredible how many startups are out there that are doing things wrong. The most important part of working for a startup is choosing the right one (ie, one that won't confuse productivity and butt in seat time).

quickpost 16y ago
> The most important part of working for a startup is choosing the right one... Ya I couldn't agree more... It's one topic that I would like to see covered more often is how to identify the right startup from a prospective employee perspective.
- j_baker 16y ago
  There's a problem with that though. I think one could write a ton about choosing a startup that will be successful from a strictly economic standpoint. But I can't write anything to tell you what kind of startup you want to work for. That's something you're pretty much on your own with. As Carl Jung once said: "The secret to your vision lies in your own heart. Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside awakens."
robryan 16y ago
Even if you do setup work hours that aren't overkill there will still be times when 5pm rolls around and there are bugs which are currently effecting customers. The startup that knuckles down and fixes the bugs asap will easily out do the one the says oh well end of the day, we'll fix it tomorrow.
- patio11 16y ago
  There's just so much culture to unpack in this statement. Any company -- startup or otherwise -- which treated its employees' personal lives as something other than an expendable resources would treat "a drop-everything-it-needs-fixing-now bug got into production" as an anomalous emergency. There would be investigations after the fact and steps taken to prevent it from ever happening again. The thing about anomalous emergencies? They don't happen every single freaking day if you are competent. A company I previously worked for, which was by no means a paragon of work-life balance, had a fairly simple guideline with regards to bugs that were that severe: if there is an engineer four levels down the org chart in the office at 2 AM because of a bug, there had better be three levels of org chart also in the office at 2 AM preparing for an investigation into how they screwed up to let that bug get into a customer's system.
- lsc 16y ago
  Eh, I'm a SysAdmin, so generally speaking, my "bugs" are quite a bit more urgent. Yeah, sometimes you need to drop everything and then go deal with it. The difference between a reasonable company that can keep good people and an unreasonable company that cycles through burnt-out husks is seen the day after you had to pull an all nighter. At the company you want to work for, you get a day of flex time, and even if you don't take it, you get thanked (and not berated) when you stumble in around 3pm. My general rule is "If you can't get it done before you sleep, you might as well go to sleep on whatever schedule gives you the most total productivity" This means no sleep deprivation during crunch time, unless you can reasonably stay up long enough to finish. Sleep-deprivation for projects that last more than a day is completely stupid because you trade away all your good hours tomorrow for a few more tired hours tonight. It's harder than that, too, because sleep isn't the only need. Sure you can go longer without seeing your friends/family or doing whatever it is you do to relax, probably, than you can go without sleep, but most people's performance starts to degrade sharply after a week or so of not having personal time, even if they do get enough sleep. So again, if the crunch time is going to last more than a week, having people do overtime is probably going to net you less total productivity than just having them work optimal hours. The thing is, humans have limits. there's only so many hours in a row someone can usefully work. There is no point in paying someone to sit in the seat if they are burnt out. You might as well pay them to be home doing something else, becoming not-burnt-out so they can then get something done for you the next day.
chrisaycock 16y ago
> one that won't confuse productivity and butt in seat time That's hardly limited to start-ups. There are whole industries built on absurd working hours, and not out of necessity.

by j_baker 16y ago

quickpost 16y ago

> The most important part of working for a startup is choosing the right one... Ya I couldn't agree more... It's one topic that I would like to see covered more often is how to identify the right startup from a prospective employee perspective.

j_baker 16y ago
There's a problem with that though. I think one could write a ton about choosing a startup that will be successful from a strictly economic standpoint. But I can't write anything to tell you what kind of startup you want to work for. That's something you're pretty much on your own with. As Carl Jung once said: "The secret to your vision lies in your own heart. Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside awakens."

robryan 16y ago

Even if you do setup work hours that aren't overkill there will still be times when 5pm rolls around and there are bugs which are currently effecting customers. The startup that knuckles down and fixes the bugs asap will easily out do the one the says oh well end of the day, we'll fix it tomorrow.

patio11 16y ago
There's just so much culture to unpack in this statement. Any company -- startup or otherwise -- which treated its employees' personal lives as something other than an expendable resources would treat "a drop-everything-it-needs-fixing-now bug got into production" as an anomalous emergency. There would be investigations after the fact and steps taken to prevent it from ever happening again. The thing about anomalous emergencies? They don't happen every single freaking day if you are competent. A company I previously worked for, which was by no means a paragon of work-life balance, had a fairly simple guideline with regards to bugs that were that severe: if there is an engineer four levels down the org chart in the office at 2 AM because of a bug, there had better be three levels of org chart also in the office at 2 AM preparing for an investigation into how they screwed up to let that bug get into a customer's system.
lsc 16y ago
Eh, I'm a SysAdmin, so generally speaking, my "bugs" are quite a bit more urgent. Yeah, sometimes you need to drop everything and then go deal with it. The difference between a reasonable company that can keep good people and an unreasonable company that cycles through burnt-out husks is seen the day after you had to pull an all nighter. At the company you want to work for, you get a day of flex time, and even if you don't take it, you get thanked (and not berated) when you stumble in around 3pm. My general rule is "If you can't get it done before you sleep, you might as well go to sleep on whatever schedule gives you the most total productivity" This means no sleep deprivation during crunch time, unless you can reasonably stay up long enough to finish. Sleep-deprivation for projects that last more than a day is completely stupid because you trade away all your good hours tomorrow for a few more tired hours tonight. It's harder than that, too, because sleep isn't the only need. Sure you can go longer without seeing your friends/family or doing whatever it is you do to relax, probably, than you can go without sleep, but most people's performance starts to degrade sharply after a week or so of not having personal time, even if they do get enough sleep. So again, if the crunch time is going to last more than a week, having people do overtime is probably going to net you less total productivity than just having them work optimal hours. The thing is, humans have limits. there's only so many hours in a row someone can usefully work. There is no point in paying someone to sit in the seat if they are burnt out. You might as well pay them to be home doing something else, becoming not-burnt-out so they can then get something done for you the next day.

chrisaycock 16y ago

> one that won't confuse productivity and butt in seat time That's hardly limited to start-ups. There are whole industries built on absurd working hours, and not out of necessity.