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I sent a saliva swab and got my dna analyzed by 23andme. I got back information I already knew such as where I came from etc. Serious question. IF the governme

by hi41 7y ago

I sent a saliva swab and got my dna analyzed by 23andme. I got back information I already knew such as where I came from etc. Serious question. IF the government catches a relative of mine who is a rapist or a murderer from my dna, I don’t see anything wrong with it. Could someone please explain what could go wrong. Keeping our community from heinous criminals is a good thing isn’t?

JohnFen 7y ago
> Keeping our community from heinous criminals is a good thing isn’t? Yes, but there certainly is a cost to doing that, and at some point the cost outweighs the benefits. If that weren't true, then the argument could be used to insist that every place, including every room in your home, should be subjected to government surveillance 24 hours a day.
rainyMammoth 7y ago
ah, here we go. The notoriously flawed "I'm doing nothing wrong and I have nothing to hide" argument. There are so many reasons why this is wrong and it is a pretty well known philosophical stance. A couple reasons: - You assume that the government is acting for your best interest. What would happen if we elect a crazy president that changes the direction of the country? (Think WW2 Germany with their eugenics). - You are not doing anything wrong but don't you have information that you want to keep private? Getting an STD for example is not illegal but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that medical information available after a search with your name on Google.
- hi41 7y ago
  Yes, I did not think of laws that can change in the future. I will reach out to 23andme and request the deletion of my dna results and my account. I hope it works.
- maxioatic 7y ago
  I'm curious what you mean by philosophical stance. Could you expand a little?
  - rainyMammoth 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
thaumaturgy 7y ago
Forensic genealogy isn't perfect. There are a few different kinds of DNA tests and comparisons, and some of those are better than others, and which one is used and how the DNA is collected and the interpretation of the results is still left up to human beings with badges, so it's still error-prone. This has led to people being wrongly accused, and even convicted, of serious crimes: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/genetic-genealogy-can-help-solve-cold-cases-it-can-also-accuse-the-wrong-person https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/genetic-genealogy-can-h... https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convictions-1797915655 https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convict... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong... https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dna-ancestry-kits-twins-marketplace-1.4980976 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dna-ancestry-kits-twins-m... The problem here is that DNA evidence is currently considered infallible by law enforcement and jurors, so very nearly no amount of contradictory evidence will get you off the hook if a DNA test matches you to a cold case.
- hi41 7y ago
  Thank you for your well researched response. That answered my question.
- endorphone 7y ago
  The police don't charge anyone based upon a 23andme test. They couldn't given that the typing done by 23andme and friends is an incomplete chip analyzed subset used for ancestry and some health tests. If you took that 23andme test and uploaded it to GEDmatch, however, there are genetic genealogy experts who can figure out family trees, with which the police can narrow in somewhat to try to figure out who might fit a crime. Then they can ask you to volunteer a sample for comparison, or covertly get one. It has been spectacularly successful. A lot of cold cases have been getting solved because of such analysis. As to your list of URLs, I think people should actually read them. A guy had a trivial inconvenience after he had a familial match with a violent rape, and he met all of the other criteria (travel area, made a movie about a violent murder of a young female, etc). Then he was exonerated. He could have had more of an inconvenience if he simply had a car that looked slightly like a suspect vehicle, or the same hair style, but this is the example of overreach? Another is an absurd misuse of DNA in Taiwan that has zero applicability. The final sentence is just nonsense. The DNA isn't even the lynchpin in most cases, the police instead building a case given that lead. It's also worth noting that one of the greatest tools for exonerating people wrongly convicted is....DNA. Many people who unjustly spent decades behind bars are being freed based upon DNA.

by hi41 7y ago

JohnFen 7y ago

> Keeping our community from heinous criminals is a good thing isn’t? Yes, but there certainly is a cost to doing that, and at some point the cost outweighs the benefits. If that weren't true, then the argument could be used to insist that every place, including every room in your home, should be subjected to government surveillance 24 hours a day.

rainyMammoth 7y ago

ah, here we go. The notoriously flawed "I'm doing nothing wrong and I have nothing to hide" argument. There are so many reasons why this is wrong and it is a pretty well known philosophical stance. A couple reasons: - You assume that the government is acting for your best interest. What would happen if we elect a crazy president that changes the direction of the country? (Think WW2 Germany with their eugenics). - You are not doing anything wrong but don't you have information that you want to keep private? Getting an STD for example is not illegal but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that medical information available after a search with your name on Google.

hi41 7y ago
Yes, I did not think of laws that can change in the future. I will reach out to 23andme and request the deletion of my dna results and my account. I hope it works.
maxioatic 7y ago
I'm curious what you mean by philosophical stance. Could you expand a little?
- rainyMammoth 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

thaumaturgy 7y ago

Forensic genealogy isn't perfect. There are a few different kinds of DNA tests and comparisons, and some of those are better than others, and which one is used and how the DNA is collected and the interpretation of the results is still left up to human beings with badges, so it's still error-prone. This has led to people being wrongly accused, and even convicted, of serious crimes: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/genetic-genealogy-can-help-solve-cold-cases-it-can-also-accuse-the-wrong-person https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/genetic-genealogy-can-h... https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convictions-1797915655 https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convict... https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong-when-dna-snares-innocent https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/forensics-gone-wrong... https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dna-ancestry-kits-twins-marketplace-1.4980976 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dna-ancestry-kits-twins-m... The problem here is that DNA evidence is currently considered infallible by law enforcement and jurors, so very nearly no amount of contradictory evidence will get you off the hook if a DNA test matches you to a cold case.

hi41 7y ago
Thank you for your well researched response. That answered my question.
endorphone 7y ago
The police don't charge anyone based upon a 23andme test. They couldn't given that the typing done by 23andme and friends is an incomplete chip analyzed subset used for ancestry and some health tests. If you took that 23andme test and uploaded it to GEDmatch, however, there are genetic genealogy experts who can figure out family trees, with which the police can narrow in somewhat to try to figure out who might fit a crime. Then they can ask you to volunteer a sample for comparison, or covertly get one. It has been spectacularly successful. A lot of cold cases have been getting solved because of such analysis. As to your list of URLs, I think people should actually read them. A guy had a trivial inconvenience after he had a familial match with a violent rape, and he met all of the other criteria (travel area, made a movie about a violent murder of a young female, etc). Then he was exonerated. He could have had more of an inconvenience if he simply had a car that looked slightly like a suspect vehicle, or the same hair style, but this is the example of overreach? Another is an absurd misuse of DNA in Taiwan that has zero applicability. The final sentence is just nonsense. The DNA isn't even the lynchpin in most cases, the police instead building a case given that lead. It's also worth noting that one of the greatest tools for exonerating people wrongly convicted is....DNA. Many people who unjustly spent decades behind bars are being freed based upon DNA.