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Certainly, they're different. I'm pretty confident about a company's profit motive; not so much with the government which changes every few years. I don't lik

Certainly, they're different. I'm pretty confident about a company's profit motive; not so much with the government which changes every few years. I don't like a company having it (and will never take such a test), but like the government even less. The government's the one that can bust down my door at 3 AM, haul me away, and shoot me if I resist.

katzgrau 7y ago
A company's direction is going to be aligned with the owners/shareholders goal, which isn't always but in most cases is profit. At least we know that. Government? Who knows - whatever behavior emerges when you get a bunch of self promotors, egotists and idealists to compete amongst each other for whatever it is that each is individually competing for.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  So in other words, with companies we know for sure the data will be abused badly, as much as possible. Governments are a wildcard; today they may actually protect this data and use it mostly responsibly. Tomorrow, they may bust your head for being related to someone or some group they don't like.
  - katzgrau 7y ago
    Not really, because many companies are owned by decent people who have a personal value system and their companies are reflections of that. Most business owners I've met are good and decent people. It's actually very hard to build a great company and team if you're aren't a genuinely decent person. When a company is sold or is subject to the interests of people divorced from the original mission and values of the company, problems will likely emerge. I guess my point is that you can't really trust anybody, because humans are the fundamental building block of both corporations and government, and their personal or collective self interests emerge to create issues regardless of their structure or purpose.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > because many companies are owned by decent people who have a personal value system and their companies are reflections of that Sure. But in context of privacy, tell me, what personal value system is reflected in companies that suck in and process that data? I mean the marketing, the adtech, the data brokerage companies? Being charitable, I imagine it's "do well unto my customers (i.e. other companies); everyone else is irrelevant". Which I guess is defensible under the moral framework exploitative capitalism, but that doesn't satisfy me as one of those "everyone else" whose data gets processed. That people in companies that abuse my data have work ethics is not reassuring me in the slightest. > When a company is sold or is subject to the interests of people divorced from the original mission and values of the company, problems will likely emerge. I think almost all of companies are like that. In particular, VC-funded startups are like that from the day one - the investors are absolutely "divorced from the original mission and values of the company". > their personal or collective self interests emerge to create issues regardless of their structure or purpose. And my point is that if you look at the structure of these self interests, how they flow in the vector field of incentives, and if you look at what capabilities peoples, companies and governments have, the picture is pretty predictable: private companies will, on average, screw you over always, incessantly; governments (at least the western kind) will be friendly most of the time, but if and when they do decide to screw you up, the immediate consequences will be much worse.

katzgrau 7y ago

A company's direction is going to be aligned with the owners/shareholders goal, which isn't always but in most cases is profit. At least we know that. Government? Who knows - whatever behavior emerges when you get a bunch of self promotors, egotists and idealists to compete amongst each other for whatever it is that each is individually competing for.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
So in other words, with companies we know for sure the data will be abused badly, as much as possible. Governments are a wildcard; today they may actually protect this data and use it mostly responsibly. Tomorrow, they may bust your head for being related to someone or some group they don't like.
- katzgrau 7y ago
  Not really, because many companies are owned by decent people who have a personal value system and their companies are reflections of that. Most business owners I've met are good and decent people. It's actually very hard to build a great company and team if you're aren't a genuinely decent person. When a company is sold or is subject to the interests of people divorced from the original mission and values of the company, problems will likely emerge. I guess my point is that you can't really trust anybody, because humans are the fundamental building block of both corporations and government, and their personal or collective self interests emerge to create issues regardless of their structure or purpose.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > because many companies are owned by decent people who have a personal value system and their companies are reflections of that Sure. But in context of privacy, tell me, what personal value system is reflected in companies that suck in and process that data? I mean the marketing, the adtech, the data brokerage companies? Being charitable, I imagine it's "do well unto my customers (i.e. other companies); everyone else is irrelevant". Which I guess is defensible under the moral framework exploitative capitalism, but that doesn't satisfy me as one of those "everyone else" whose data gets processed. That people in companies that abuse my data have work ethics is not reassuring me in the slightest. > When a company is sold or is subject to the interests of people divorced from the original mission and values of the company, problems will likely emerge. I think almost all of companies are like that. In particular, VC-funded startups are like that from the day one - the investors are absolutely "divorced from the original mission and values of the company". > their personal or collective self interests emerge to create issues regardless of their structure or purpose. And my point is that if you look at the structure of these self interests, how they flow in the vector field of incentives, and if you look at what capabilities peoples, companies and governments have, the picture is pretty predictable: private companies will, on average, screw you over always, incessantly; governments (at least the western kind) will be friendly most of the time, but if and when they do decide to screw you up, the immediate consequences will be much worse.