4 ms·

> So, if, as a woman, you raise a problem in a space that's mostly male (like pretty much all tech spaces), you'll get a bunch of suggestions of trivial things

> So, if, as a woman, you raise a problem in a space that's mostly male (like pretty much all tech spaces), you'll get a bunch of suggestions of trivial things to try (that you usually already have tried) Can you give like 3 examples of this happening on HN? (Since the original question was about what the difference would be to HN), or for example StackOverflow? I mean the basic interface of those websites does even show the gender of the account, dies it? Why would the answers then be different dependent on the gender?

groby_b 7y ago
No, I can't, but you're welcome to do it yourself. I'm not here to do your homework. That was the whole point of the above.
- pezo1919 7y ago
  So you claim you know the answer but you don't share with us. That is wtf. You had really good points up there but its not clear at all what is the conclusion for the original question. If you are asked to fill in the blanks you say you won't. Shall we google for your thoughts? (Googling is a main bullet point up there.)
  - jshevek 7y ago
    Thank you for being so patient, and for engaging in good faith. If your use of 'wtf' suggests a growing frustration, please know at least one person both sympathizes with you and hopes that you won't let any frustration damage the quality of your discourse.
    - pezo1919 7y ago
      Thanks a lot, you read me and it helps a lot. :) (Such neat support never happened to me yet. :) )
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  Not do homework but to give any basis for a claim that is actually quite preposterous - that women have in many instances have to deal with different things or preferential treatment or harassment on a platform where you can't even see the gender of the participants on that platform. What is the implication? That people who harrass stalk every single participant and somehow hack their accounts or otherwise analyze their speach or something, to first determine their gender, to then go ahead to harrass them? This is on a website where 99% of converstaion is about technical issues? Yes you would need to provide some evidence if your claim is this much out there, people are not just going believe it just because you happen to be part of a group.
quineoa 7y ago
I’m not sure if this is meant to be a joke. But with your username, replying to a comment about “{GROUP} feels that they are unreasonably asked to prove themselves” with your reply of “can you prove to me that {GROUP} is allowed to feel that way?” is more than a little ironic.
- jshevek 7y ago
  You comment is structured so as to imply an identity or equivalence that doesn't exist. A claim was made without evidence. The respondant made a valid argument for the improbability of the claim being true, given that gender is normally not evident, and simply asked for evidence to justify the claim. There is no irony here, simply an attempt at objectivity. We should ask for evidence to justify claims like this.
  - quineoa 7y ago
    The problem is that the claim is most likely subjective so it doesn’t need evidence. And the act of always being asked for evidence in various situations, and not being respected for knowing what is going on was one of the subjective claims being made. Someone doesn’t have to justify their feelings or opinions or observations of how they are being treated. If someone says they are always experiencing something, then we should listen instead of asking them to prove to us that they are allowed to feel that way.
    - jshevek 7y ago
      There is a major problem of ambiguity at every level of this conversation. At least one person (reasonably) interpreted the claim to be that women are more likely to experience a particular kind of response in a particular forum. This is not a subjective claim. It may be hard to test, but it is either true or not true. If it is not true, but the person believes that it is true, they may even be harmed by their false belief. In general, we should take great care not to confuse our subjective impressions or our emotional experiences with objective reality. > If someone says they are always experiencing something, then we should listen instead of asking them to prove to us that they are allowed to feel that way. Listening to a person (or even caring deeply for another's experience) is not mutual exclusive to taking steps to determine if their emotional responses are rooted in actual reality, or just their perception of reality. Both can happen together, by the same person, in the same conversation. Presenting this as a choice of mutually exclusive options does everyone a disservice. In my opinion, there are situations where you should prioritize a person's emotional experience, and situations in which you should prioritize the facts.

groby_b 7y ago

No, I can't, but you're welcome to do it yourself. I'm not here to do your homework. That was the whole point of the above.

pezo1919 7y ago
So you claim you know the answer but you don't share with us. That is wtf. You had really good points up there but its not clear at all what is the conclusion for the original question. If you are asked to fill in the blanks you say you won't. Shall we google for your thoughts? (Googling is a main bullet point up there.)
- jshevek 7y ago
  Thank you for being so patient, and for engaging in good faith. If your use of 'wtf' suggests a growing frustration, please know at least one person both sympathizes with you and hopes that you won't let any frustration damage the quality of your discourse.
  - pezo1919 7y ago
    Thanks a lot, you read me and it helps a lot. :) (Such neat support never happened to me yet. :) )
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
Not do homework but to give any basis for a claim that is actually quite preposterous - that women have in many instances have to deal with different things or preferential treatment or harassment on a platform where you can't even see the gender of the participants on that platform. What is the implication? That people who harrass stalk every single participant and somehow hack their accounts or otherwise analyze their speach or something, to first determine their gender, to then go ahead to harrass them? This is on a website where 99% of converstaion is about technical issues? Yes you would need to provide some evidence if your claim is this much out there, people are not just going believe it just because you happen to be part of a group.

quineoa 7y ago

I’m not sure if this is meant to be a joke. But with your username, replying to a comment about “{GROUP} feels that they are unreasonably asked to prove themselves” with your reply of “can you prove to me that {GROUP} is allowed to feel that way?” is more than a little ironic.

jshevek 7y ago
You comment is structured so as to imply an identity or equivalence that doesn't exist. A claim was made without evidence. The respondant made a valid argument for the improbability of the claim being true, given that gender is normally not evident, and simply asked for evidence to justify the claim. There is no irony here, simply an attempt at objectivity. We should ask for evidence to justify claims like this.
- quineoa 7y ago
  The problem is that the claim is most likely subjective so it doesn’t need evidence. And the act of always being asked for evidence in various situations, and not being respected for knowing what is going on was one of the subjective claims being made. Someone doesn’t have to justify their feelings or opinions or observations of how they are being treated. If someone says they are always experiencing something, then we should listen instead of asking them to prove to us that they are allowed to feel that way.
  - jshevek 7y ago
    There is a major problem of ambiguity at every level of this conversation. At least one person (reasonably) interpreted the claim to be that women are more likely to experience a particular kind of response in a particular forum. This is not a subjective claim. It may be hard to test, but it is either true or not true. If it is not true, but the person believes that it is true, they may even be harmed by their false belief. In general, we should take great care not to confuse our subjective impressions or our emotional experiences with objective reality. > If someone says they are always experiencing something, then we should listen instead of asking them to prove to us that they are allowed to feel that way. Listening to a person (or even caring deeply for another's experience) is not mutual exclusive to taking steps to determine if their emotional responses are rooted in actual reality, or just their perception of reality. Both can happen together, by the same person, in the same conversation. Presenting this as a choice of mutually exclusive options does everyone a disservice. In my opinion, there are situations where you should prioritize a person's emotional experience, and situations in which you should prioritize the facts.