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A pill that decreases the risk of cardiac arrest is very different than a pill that is psychoactive. Many people just can't relate to taking a drug that quite l

A pill that decreases the risk of cardiac arrest is very different than a pill that is psychoactive. Many people just can't relate to taking a drug that quite literally changes your behavior on a day-to-day basis, even if it has positive effects on your life. This is something I myself have struggled with. I suffer from anxiety but I can't bring myself to take medication because I like the person I am and I don't want to change my behavior or personality. No one should be stopping you from taking Ritalin, but each of us is entitled to our own opinion, so the only thing that is irritating is when someone calls out an opinion another holds even if that opinion has no tangible effect on anyone's life.

kitsune_ 7y ago
" Lanham, Md. (Jan. 8, 2019)— The message is clear. Treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), along with the related health risks it poses, has the possibility of adding an average of nine to 13 years to the lifespan of children and adults diagnosed with ADHD. This is the implication of a cutting-edge research study conducted by Russell A. Barkley, Ph.D., who evaluated the connection between ADHD and 14 critical health factors including nutrition, exercise, and tobacco and alcohol use." https://chadd.org/advocacy-blog/new-research-suggests-untreated-adhd-reduces-life-expectancy/ https://chadd.org/advocacy-blog/new-research-suggests-untrea... ADHD is an extremely harmful condition. You are more likely to end up in jail, crash a car, suffer from diabetes, smoke etc. than neurotypical people. 9 to 13 years in life expectancy, I mean, wowzah. And opinions held in society or groups obviously have an effect on individuals. That's how social systems work.
- viklove 7y ago
  I feel like you're now arguing in bad faith. Medicine for heart health does not change your behavior significantly. ADHD medication does. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.
  - 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
    > Medicine for heart health does not change your behavior significantly. This part of your argument is decidedly false. It's been an open secret for decades among public performers of several stripes (actors, public speakers, musicians, etc.) that beta blockers can prevent stage fright [1]. More recently, there have been multiple studies suggesting a link between statin use and increased irritability and aggression [2] [3]. Basically, the distinction between "psychoactive" and "non-psychoactive" drugs is more about the reasons people take them than it is about the drugs themselves. To a first approximation, there's no such thing as an objectively "non-psychoactive" drug. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/arts/mixed-reviews-for-a-stagefright-remedy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/arts/mixed-reviews-for-a-... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005588/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005588/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488854/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488854/
Gene_Parmesan 7y ago
The big question for us is, do we consider the parts of our behavior caused by whatever we suffer from to be part of our identity or personality? I do not now. I used to -- I had a fairly major crisis of identity after my diagnosis, because a very large chunk of what I considered to be my personality turned out to be ADHD symptoms. I literally had to refind myself. But it turned out very well, because now I define myself based upon what my actual qualities are, rather than defining myself based on symptoms of a disorder. I no longer feel like everything about who I am changed after meds; I'm still the same person I was ten years ago, I'm just now more easily able to express that self without ADHD getting in the way. Also, in almost all cases, the "new qualities" are better than the old ones. Whereas before, "I just can't finish things" was unfortunately something I considered to be part of me, now I am able to finish things mostly the same as neurotypical people. That leaves me free to define myself based on positive qualities -- good humor, optimism, and so on. The thing is, it became much easier for me to feel okay about taking medicine when I realized that the goal of medicine is simply to bring me back to a "normal" level. I had been operating at a deficiency of certain neurotransmitters; the medication simply brings those levels closer to normal. Once I had adopted a more biochemical perspective on my brain and identity, my initial reluctance disappeared. A side effect of this is that I kind of no longer believe personality is fixed. I really don't find that the things we tend to call 'personality' are the sort of permanent identifying landmarks to a person we want them to be. Now I've adopted a view that puts a much stronger emphasis on the actions a person chooses to take, which I think is a better way to identify a person's qualities anyways. --- I would hesitate though with ADHD in particular, because untreated ADHD reduces your lifespan in a statistically significant way, is literal hell to live through, and the treatments are perfectly safe and extremely effective. If someone has a child who is diagnosed with ADHD, I would beg them to not let their personal prejudices against medicine keep them from getting the child the help they need. As someone who lived through it as a kid, it was physically torture. The word "restlessness" sounds benign, but I find it to be quite similar to akathisia on bad days, which is really horrific.
- munk-a 7y ago
  I've dealt with this quandry! Oh man, sure, the medication makes me a better member of society... but am I killing the old me? Am I discriminating against the old me? In taking the medication are we declaring the me I was born as a dysfunctional useless person? I actually came to pretty much the same conclusion, I prefer being the me that is clear headed - the medication is a requisite for that and I dislike that chemical requirement, but I prefer this me. I think I've gotten more over this after bringing someone bipolar(with some other issues) closely into my family, they are drastically different when off balance and constantly have to fight (adjusting meds, checking Li levels) to stay on balance... And the off-balance person isn't a bad person, but they're highly internally inconsistent, they constantly put roadblocks in their way and, even when the meds are way off balance - they'll come through stable for random moments and strongly want to rebalance themselves. Their condition is rough enough that they can't self-correct, I can mostly self-correct, it's hard but if I've run out of meds I can make it into the Doctor and get more and I feel quite lucky to be able to do that.
chownie 7y ago
A very popular medication (propranolol) diagnosed for blood pressure control also causes your heartbeat to slow. It's commonly prescribed as a first line approach to acute anxiety, if you take them they slow your heart rate and can cease panic symptoms spiralling. I cannot think of a medication that doesn't in some way affect your psychological profile, because if you're sick then you'll behave differently. I think it's a bit of a trap to believe that you are your authentic self only by denying yourself medication, I consider myself from 5 years ago a different person let alone pre-medication. Is it that valuable that you struggle and live unhappy for the limited years you have available?

kitsune_ 7y ago

" Lanham, Md. (Jan. 8, 2019)— The message is clear. Treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), along with the related health risks it poses, has the possibility of adding an average of nine to 13 years to the lifespan of children and adults diagnosed with ADHD. This is the implication of a cutting-edge research study conducted by Russell A. Barkley, Ph.D., who evaluated the connection between ADHD and 14 critical health factors including nutrition, exercise, and tobacco and alcohol use." https://chadd.org/advocacy-blog/new-research-suggests-untreated-adhd-reduces-life-expectancy/ https://chadd.org/advocacy-blog/new-research-suggests-untrea... ADHD is an extremely harmful condition. You are more likely to end up in jail, crash a car, suffer from diabetes, smoke etc. than neurotypical people. 9 to 13 years in life expectancy, I mean, wowzah. And opinions held in society or groups obviously have an effect on individuals. That's how social systems work.

viklove 7y ago
I feel like you're now arguing in bad faith. Medicine for heart health does not change your behavior significantly. ADHD medication does. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.
- 0xcde4c3db 7y ago
  > Medicine for heart health does not change your behavior significantly. This part of your argument is decidedly false. It's been an open secret for decades among public performers of several stripes (actors, public speakers, musicians, etc.) that beta blockers can prevent stage fright [1]. More recently, there have been multiple studies suggesting a link between statin use and increased irritability and aggression [2] [3]. Basically, the distinction between "psychoactive" and "non-psychoactive" drugs is more about the reasons people take them than it is about the drugs themselves. To a first approximation, there's no such thing as an objectively "non-psychoactive" drug. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/arts/mixed-reviews-for-a-stagefright-remedy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/21/arts/mixed-reviews-for-a-... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005588/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5005588/ [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488854/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488854/

Gene_Parmesan 7y ago

The big question for us is, do we consider the parts of our behavior caused by whatever we suffer from to be part of our identity or personality? I do not now. I used to -- I had a fairly major crisis of identity after my diagnosis, because a very large chunk of what I considered to be my personality turned out to be ADHD symptoms. I literally had to refind myself. But it turned out very well, because now I define myself based upon what my actual qualities are, rather than defining myself based on symptoms of a disorder. I no longer feel like everything about who I am changed after meds; I'm still the same person I was ten years ago, I'm just now more easily able to express that self without ADHD getting in the way. Also, in almost all cases, the "new qualities" are better than the old ones. Whereas before, "I just can't finish things" was unfortunately something I considered to be part of me, now I am able to finish things mostly the same as neurotypical people. That leaves me free to define myself based on positive qualities -- good humor, optimism, and so on. The thing is, it became much easier for me to feel okay about taking medicine when I realized that the goal of medicine is simply to bring me back to a "normal" level. I had been operating at a deficiency of certain neurotransmitters; the medication simply brings those levels closer to normal. Once I had adopted a more biochemical perspective on my brain and identity, my initial reluctance disappeared. A side effect of this is that I kind of no longer believe personality is fixed. I really don't find that the things we tend to call 'personality' are the sort of permanent identifying landmarks to a person we want them to be. Now I've adopted a view that puts a much stronger emphasis on the actions a person chooses to take, which I think is a better way to identify a person's qualities anyways. --- I would hesitate though with ADHD in particular, because untreated ADHD reduces your lifespan in a statistically significant way, is literal hell to live through, and the treatments are perfectly safe and extremely effective. If someone has a child who is diagnosed with ADHD, I would beg them to not let their personal prejudices against medicine keep them from getting the child the help they need. As someone who lived through it as a kid, it was physically torture. The word "restlessness" sounds benign, but I find it to be quite similar to akathisia on bad days, which is really horrific.

munk-a 7y ago
I've dealt with this quandry! Oh man, sure, the medication makes me a better member of society... but am I killing the old me? Am I discriminating against the old me? In taking the medication are we declaring the me I was born as a dysfunctional useless person? I actually came to pretty much the same conclusion, I prefer being the me that is clear headed - the medication is a requisite for that and I dislike that chemical requirement, but I prefer this me. I think I've gotten more over this after bringing someone bipolar(with some other issues) closely into my family, they are drastically different when off balance and constantly have to fight (adjusting meds, checking Li levels) to stay on balance... And the off-balance person isn't a bad person, but they're highly internally inconsistent, they constantly put roadblocks in their way and, even when the meds are way off balance - they'll come through stable for random moments and strongly want to rebalance themselves. Their condition is rough enough that they can't self-correct, I can mostly self-correct, it's hard but if I've run out of meds I can make it into the Doctor and get more and I feel quite lucky to be able to do that.

chownie 7y ago

A very popular medication (propranolol) diagnosed for blood pressure control also causes your heartbeat to slow. It's commonly prescribed as a first line approach to acute anxiety, if you take them they slow your heart rate and can cease panic symptoms spiralling. I cannot think of a medication that doesn't in some way affect your psychological profile, because if you're sick then you'll behave differently. I think it's a bit of a trap to believe that you are your authentic self only by denying yourself medication, I consider myself from 5 years ago a different person let alone pre-medication. Is it that valuable that you struggle and live unhappy for the limited years you have available?