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The article does go on to say: > The case will likely hinge the specific facts of Williams’ planning for Nuvia, Palefsky said. Given that work at modern tech j
by alpha_squared 7y ago
The article does go on to say:
> The case will likely hinge the specific facts of Williams’ planning for Nuvia, Palefsky said. Given that work at modern tech jobs rarely sticks to traditional business hours, it may be difficult to untangle whether calls were made during company time or personal time.
That's actually a pretty fair thing. Apple may define, for example, its "company time" as any time the office is open and accessible to employees -- which is a pretty wide window.
- outworlder 7y agoYou can bet that's how they are going to try to define this.
- jessriedel 7y agoBut like most tech companies they give their employees a lot of freedom to adjust their hours. If the employee is free to take an hour during the normal workday to pick up groceries, it stands to reason they can use it to recruit their friends for a venture.
- kelnos 7y agoYes, that's what I was thinking too. If it's normal and commonplace for someone to step out for an hour to run an errand, how is that any more "company time" than ducking into a conference room, or (safer) heading to the garage and sitting in your car to make some recruiting phone calls?
- kristianc 7y agoI’m not sure that does follow - Apple allows the employee to take an hour to pick up groceries as it makes the employee less distracted, more focused, and a more valuable asset to Apple. Not sure that applies to planning a competitive startup on company time.
- m0zg 7y agoExtraordinary claims, though, require extraordinary proof. And the onus is on Apple to prove what they allege. Somehow I don't think the judge will agree with your rather lax definition of "company time". I'd define it more reasonably as "time during which company resources were used or company work was claimed to be done", i.e. you're in the office, or using company hardware at home, or specifically claim to be working from home, stuff like that.
- alpha_squared 7y agoEven _that_ can be dicey, though. I can imagine being at a meeting with coworkers and concluding with, "hey, I'd like to talk to you about something later," to one of them. Later could've been outside the office -- it's unknown. That sounds like company time, but feels a little wrong. I think this case is going to be very heavily dependent on technicalities.
- akiselev 7y agoIANAL but this is a civil suit so the standard is going to be a "preponderance of the evidence." Both Apple and Williams could have solid, equally valid arguments for their side and one small detail could tip the scales to either direction. Beyond demonstrating the basic facts of the case, Apple doesn't have to prove that Williams was 100% doing it on his own time, just muddy the waters enough for some other detail like using a company device or recruiting coworkers to put them over the top. That doesn't preclude the jury deciding in Apple's favor but then awarding them something symbolic like $1.
- threeseed 7y agoI've worked at Apple and other larger tech companies. They largely work traditional 9-5 hours and whilst people will work longer hours around key deliverable dates it's entirely optional.