10 ms·

> NC: One thing that’s happened is the press has been pretty much muzzled. They are very uncritical. This is a big issue with mass media in India that many don

by wtmt 7y ago

> NC: One thing that’s happened is the press has been pretty much muzzled. They are very uncritical. This is a big issue with mass media in India that many don’t realize or want to realize. Between — a) most of the mainstream media houses (except a few) not asking tough questions (but supporting the government for everything), b) the Supreme Court ignoring important cases and not hearing them for years and c) the amount of fake news spread through WhatsApp — the liberal forums in India are filled with stories of how people are losing relationships or finding it difficult to digest the fact that their loved ones are close minded bigots. Twitter has become a cesspool of bots, political party “IT Cells” and people copy pasting the same messages and hashtags, while WhatsApp has become the main source of truth (actually falsehood) for most people.

amriksohata 7y ago
Can you give examples of being muzzled?
- saq7 7y ago
  One example is looking at the coverage The Hindu gave the BJP, RSS, and Modi before he came power and after. Before they were critical of BJP when it warranted, but since they came into power the coverage has been fawning. This sort of comparision can be made across the spectrum of the news media. They are smarter than outright jailing journalists.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - amriksohata 7y ago
    That's hardly muzzling, is there evidence of threats? Even Blair and the sun struck a deal in his time
    - intended 7y ago
      And that was despicable. Here the entire media spectrum has hardly complained about the fact that the sitting PM, a man FAMOUS for lambasting his predecessor as a mute, has never had a single non-staged media appearance. IIRC the ONE time Modi did have a question session without being in control, it was a disaster. And of this fact, there is not the slightest self awareness or questioning from the reporters or heads of news channels.
      - amriksohata 7y ago
        Again how is that muzzling the media? Not appearing for interviews is very different to gagging the media from saying things like in China.
- tchalla 7y ago
  Internet in Kashmir has been down for the longest period ever in a democracy, 172 days and counting [0]. Several cities in UP, Karnataka also faced Internet shut downs during recent protests [1]. [0] https://www.dw.com/en/indian-court-kashmir-indefinite-internet-shutdown-illegal/a-51954255 https://www.dw.com/en/indian-court-kashmir-indefinite-intern... [1] https://www.medianama.com/2019/12/223-internet-shutdown-up-karnataka/ https://www.medianama.com/2019/12/223-internet-shutdown-up-k...
  - cmonnow 7y ago
    Anytime a protest/riot spills onto the street in any country, there will be 2 groups of people : 1. Those who value privacy over security 2. Those who value security over privacy No matter which side any government tilts towards, even if its a reasonably balanced approach, the other side will complain about it.
  - amriksohata 7y ago
    That's not media companies per say across India, that's one region internet has been down
- Ar-Curunir 7y ago
  Indian media uncritically promotes government propaganda. I visited my parents back home, and the news channels are unrelenting in their defense of the govt
  - Koremat6666 7y ago
    That is unfair. Republic and India tv appears to be pro government where as NDTV and other appears to be anti-BJP channels.
    - phoenixlike 7y ago
      This is not nearly accurate. NDTV "and others"(not sure of any other mainstream channels) have also hsitorically been hard on the UPA governments even if you consider them pro-Congress. The current breed of mainstream channels (Zee, Republic, India) who hold most of the eyeballs in India are not just pro-government they blatantly lie to protect the government's incompetence. Added to the fact teh BJP is a top advertiser on TV media creates a dangerous incestuous relationship the scale of which we've not ever seen before.
    - des_t 7y ago
      Check out the analysis of 200 prime-time debates done by peeing human. Republic, India TV, Zee News, ABP News, Aaj Tak, Times Now, Sudarshan News and countless regional channels are pro-govt. NDTV is the last channel standing.
      - cmonnow 7y ago
        r/india can make up for all of them. r/india Mods insta-ban any pro-BJP/pro-India/pro-conservative commenters. Now, THAT is fascism. Check out r/indiaspeaks where dissenting opinions are not banned.
        Ar-Curunir 7y ago
        Fascism is not a word you make up and throw about willy-nilly. It describes a specific form of authoritarian government.
throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
> the amount of fake news spread through WhatsApp — the liberal forums in India are filled with stories of how people are losing relationships or finding it difficult to digest the fact that their loved ones are close minded bigots. Can’t understand what this means. Are you saying the liberal forums are full of people who are struggling with family members who are deluded by WhatsApp based fake news?
Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago
You can substitute India for America and your points stand. I think there's lots of blame to go on companies like Cambridge analytica. That tech is literally a weapon of mass destruction.
- artificial 7y ago
  Zygna did something similar to CA, so have previous campaigns. Plenty of blame to go with engagement algorithms and suppressing things with Orwellian terms like "unbiasing" and filtering auto complete results and having execs allow behavior since they're on the same side. I think the past is being looked at through rose colored lenses. New media enables more people to capture and share as opposed to the official mouth pieces of traditional broadcast media setting the story. Tech is just a thing, people inside echo chambers and settling for the first thing that agrees with them is the exact opposite of critical thinking.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  You think the US media supports the US government for everything? Have you been reading the news the past 3 years? It seems to me to be just the opposite, where a majority of the voices in the media are against whatever the government(ie Trump) does. Heck, the few times when segments of the media agree with the government, it comes couched in language like "I hate Trump as much as you, but this time he might be onto something"
  - pjc50 7y ago
    The press in the US is just as factional as the parties. But there's a subset who live off slander - Alex Jones eventually got sued off the air for lying about Sandy Hook. That kind of thing does far more damage than just supporting one party or the other.
    - ameister14 7y ago
      Which is why it's illegal and you get sued for it. I don't think that's a good comparison - something illegal that is routinely punished vs something that is neither illegal nor punished, but has massive effect
president 7y ago
I guess you could say the same in the US. Actual facts and critical discourse have to be actively sought out by people who actually care about these things while the vast majority are swimming in a sea of mainstream media noise.
- vannevar 7y ago
  In the US, the problem is less the sea of mainstream media noise than it is the carefully crafted puddle of right-wing misinformation, anchored by Fox News and bolstered by a variety of foreign and domestic special interests operating in social media.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    I really hope you don't believe the left is free of misinformation, biased reporting, and algorithm-optimized bubble think. It's happening on both sides.
    - vannevar 7y ago
      No, of course not. But the effort on the right is much more focused and concerted, with a lot more money behind it both domestically (the arms and energy industries) and from foreign actors (notably Russia). And these agents, particularly Russia, are not only producing right-wing memes but also left-wing ones, in order to undermine trust generally. What's happening now is not the usual emergent misinformation that bubbles up from randomly distributed extremists on both sides, but a much more organized effort.
jagannathtech 7y ago
This is complete bs. The left dominates entire media and academia in India... remnants of India's peak socialist past. All they do is 24x7 propaganda and fake news on the govt, ruling party and the majority religion. Slowly losing their grip on the narrative has led to all these fake cries unable to come to terms with twitter which has provided a voice to the common man.
_jal 7y ago
I am beginning to think that fascism is mostly a runaway media effect. 100 years ago it was the beginnings of mass-media being understood and incorporated into politics; now it is the internet. It seems like something akin to witchcraft crazes on a truly horrifying scale.
- Balgair 7y ago
  Ok, I like this idea! The Malleus Maleficarum was a runaway 'hit' just after the printing press was invented. It's comically evil and while not fascism as we'd say it is today, damned if the methods of torture, psuedo-trial, and presumptions of guilt aren't mirrored in fascism (among others). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum#Popularity_and_influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum#Popularity...
stackreality 7y ago
> fake news spread through WhatsApp aka people communicating as they have for thousands of years. People love making up stories and spreading them. We need to stop blaming software for human nature.
- downerending 7y ago
  There's a reason why Moses included it in the ten commandments...
  - justincredible 7y ago
    I believe it was God who included it, Moses just wrote it down.
    - downerending 7y ago
      No theological statement intended. Just meant that people clearly enjoyed the "sin" of malicious deceit even two thousand years ago. Nothing new under the sun.

by wtmt 7y ago

amriksohata 7y ago

Can you give examples of being muzzled?

saq7 7y ago
One example is looking at the coverage The Hindu gave the BJP, RSS, and Modi before he came power and after. Before they were critical of BJP when it warranted, but since they came into power the coverage has been fawning. This sort of comparision can be made across the spectrum of the news media. They are smarter than outright jailing journalists.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- amriksohata 7y ago
  That's hardly muzzling, is there evidence of threats? Even Blair and the sun struck a deal in his time
  - intended 7y ago
    And that was despicable. Here the entire media spectrum has hardly complained about the fact that the sitting PM, a man FAMOUS for lambasting his predecessor as a mute, has never had a single non-staged media appearance. IIRC the ONE time Modi did have a question session without being in control, it was a disaster. And of this fact, there is not the slightest self awareness or questioning from the reporters or heads of news channels.
    - amriksohata 7y ago
      Again how is that muzzling the media? Not appearing for interviews is very different to gagging the media from saying things like in China.
tchalla 7y ago
Internet in Kashmir has been down for the longest period ever in a democracy, 172 days and counting [0]. Several cities in UP, Karnataka also faced Internet shut downs during recent protests [1]. [0] https://www.dw.com/en/indian-court-kashmir-indefinite-internet-shutdown-illegal/a-51954255 https://www.dw.com/en/indian-court-kashmir-indefinite-intern... [1] https://www.medianama.com/2019/12/223-internet-shutdown-up-karnataka/ https://www.medianama.com/2019/12/223-internet-shutdown-up-k...
- cmonnow 7y ago
  Anytime a protest/riot spills onto the street in any country, there will be 2 groups of people : 1. Those who value privacy over security 2. Those who value security over privacy No matter which side any government tilts towards, even if its a reasonably balanced approach, the other side will complain about it.
- amriksohata 7y ago
  That's not media companies per say across India, that's one region internet has been down
Ar-Curunir 7y ago
Indian media uncritically promotes government propaganda. I visited my parents back home, and the news channels are unrelenting in their defense of the govt
- Koremat6666 7y ago
  That is unfair. Republic and India tv appears to be pro government where as NDTV and other appears to be anti-BJP channels.
  - phoenixlike 7y ago
    This is not nearly accurate. NDTV "and others"(not sure of any other mainstream channels) have also hsitorically been hard on the UPA governments even if you consider them pro-Congress. The current breed of mainstream channels (Zee, Republic, India) who hold most of the eyeballs in India are not just pro-government they blatantly lie to protect the government's incompetence. Added to the fact teh BJP is a top advertiser on TV media creates a dangerous incestuous relationship the scale of which we've not ever seen before.
  - des_t 7y ago
    Check out the analysis of 200 prime-time debates done by peeing human. Republic, India TV, Zee News, ABP News, Aaj Tak, Times Now, Sudarshan News and countless regional channels are pro-govt. NDTV is the last channel standing.
    - cmonnow 7y ago
      r/india can make up for all of them. r/india Mods insta-ban any pro-BJP/pro-India/pro-conservative commenters. Now, THAT is fascism. Check out r/indiaspeaks where dissenting opinions are not banned.
      - Ar-Curunir 7y ago
        Fascism is not a word you make up and throw about willy-nilly. It describes a specific form of authoritarian government.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago

> the amount of fake news spread through WhatsApp — the liberal forums in India are filled with stories of how people are losing relationships or finding it difficult to digest the fact that their loved ones are close minded bigots. Can’t understand what this means. Are you saying the liberal forums are full of people who are struggling with family members who are deluded by WhatsApp based fake news?

Red_Leaves_Flyy 7y ago

You can substitute India for America and your points stand. I think there's lots of blame to go on companies like Cambridge analytica. That tech is literally a weapon of mass destruction.

artificial 7y ago
Zygna did something similar to CA, so have previous campaigns. Plenty of blame to go with engagement algorithms and suppressing things with Orwellian terms like "unbiasing" and filtering auto complete results and having execs allow behavior since they're on the same side. I think the past is being looked at through rose colored lenses. New media enables more people to capture and share as opposed to the official mouth pieces of traditional broadcast media setting the story. Tech is just a thing, people inside echo chambers and settling for the first thing that agrees with them is the exact opposite of critical thinking.
oh_sigh 7y ago
You think the US media supports the US government for everything? Have you been reading the news the past 3 years? It seems to me to be just the opposite, where a majority of the voices in the media are against whatever the government(ie Trump) does. Heck, the few times when segments of the media agree with the government, it comes couched in language like "I hate Trump as much as you, but this time he might be onto something"
- pjc50 7y ago
  The press in the US is just as factional as the parties. But there's a subset who live off slander - Alex Jones eventually got sued off the air for lying about Sandy Hook. That kind of thing does far more damage than just supporting one party or the other.
  - ameister14 7y ago
    Which is why it's illegal and you get sued for it. I don't think that's a good comparison - something illegal that is routinely punished vs something that is neither illegal nor punished, but has massive effect

president 7y ago

I guess you could say the same in the US. Actual facts and critical discourse have to be actively sought out by people who actually care about these things while the vast majority are swimming in a sea of mainstream media noise.

vannevar 7y ago
In the US, the problem is less the sea of mainstream media noise than it is the carefully crafted puddle of right-wing misinformation, anchored by Fox News and bolstered by a variety of foreign and domestic special interests operating in social media.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  I really hope you don't believe the left is free of misinformation, biased reporting, and algorithm-optimized bubble think. It's happening on both sides.
  - vannevar 7y ago
    No, of course not. But the effort on the right is much more focused and concerted, with a lot more money behind it both domestically (the arms and energy industries) and from foreign actors (notably Russia). And these agents, particularly Russia, are not only producing right-wing memes but also left-wing ones, in order to undermine trust generally. What's happening now is not the usual emergent misinformation that bubbles up from randomly distributed extremists on both sides, but a much more organized effort.

jagannathtech 7y ago

This is complete bs. The left dominates entire media and academia in India... remnants of India's peak socialist past. All they do is 24x7 propaganda and fake news on the govt, ruling party and the majority religion. Slowly losing their grip on the narrative has led to all these fake cries unable to come to terms with twitter which has provided a voice to the common man.

_jal 7y ago

I am beginning to think that fascism is mostly a runaway media effect. 100 years ago it was the beginnings of mass-media being understood and incorporated into politics; now it is the internet. It seems like something akin to witchcraft crazes on a truly horrifying scale.

Balgair 7y ago
Ok, I like this idea! The Malleus Maleficarum was a runaway 'hit' just after the printing press was invented. It's comically evil and while not fascism as we'd say it is today, damned if the methods of torture, psuedo-trial, and presumptions of guilt aren't mirrored in fascism (among others). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum#Popularity_and_influence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum#Popularity...

stackreality 7y ago

> fake news spread through WhatsApp aka people communicating as they have for thousands of years. People love making up stories and spreading them. We need to stop blaming software for human nature.

downerending 7y ago
There's a reason why Moses included it in the ten commandments...
- justincredible 7y ago
  I believe it was God who included it, Moses just wrote it down.
  - downerending 7y ago
    No theological statement intended. Just meant that people clearly enjoyed the "sin" of malicious deceit even two thousand years ago. Nothing new under the sun.