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"I find it extraordinarily difficult to just... relax. Sit on a bench and watch the clouds. [...] But even if I'm in that perfect scenario where there's nothing

by keyanp 7y ago

"I find it extraordinarily difficult to just... relax. Sit on a bench and watch the clouds. [...] But even if I'm in that perfect scenario where there's nothing to do... my brain will just fill the void with absurd daydreams and rabbithole trains of thought." This is the case for many (all?) people. I've found that you need to intentionally train your ability to not let your mind do this. I recommend this book for some exercises to help: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh/dp/1888375914 https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Mindfulness-Thich-Nhat-Hanh...

fxtentacle 7y ago
I have the exact same thing, but I always thought of it as a brilliant feature, not as a problem. As soon as I sit around and get bored, my brain will make up absurd daydreams and stories. Usually they are pretty funny, so afterwards I feel relaxed and happy. Isn't that the whole point of taking a break?
- jlangemeier 7y ago
  Imagine that brilliant feature isn't just "a break" but the norm... it's not just "when I get bored," it's: - In the middle of flow - Trying to fall asleep - Trying to go back to sleep - In the middle of important conversations - During meetings - even one's you're leading - When you're getting dressed - When you're making breakfast (where the hell did I put the 3rd spoon I've pulled from the drawer) - When you're in intimate moments with a partner (or by yourself - no judgement here) - When you're making lunch (just burned my second grilled cheese because I can't stay on task for 5 minutes) - During exercise - During free-time and hobbies - Between small tasks - In the middle of small tasks - etc - etc - etc The article itself is about the issues surrounding the person's ADHD, not just "procrastination," which for many people is a good thing, because it's a brain break; but for many of us with ADHD it's the norm and a cycle we have to fight instead of embrace.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    That would be super annoying, I concur. I would say the article nicely highlights the problems with ADHD diagnosis, because when I read it, I thought for pretty much every point "oh I also do that sometimes"
    - jlangemeier 7y ago
      Yeah, they did a good job covering the social issue around it; as most people do most of what we do sometimes; and the key word is always 'sometimes,' ADHD is a daily occurrence of high tide and low tide marks for attention and active effort; some days are easier than others but that isn't always setting the bar very high. Like for me, depending on where I'm at in existence from day to day my therapist has said the 'H' portion of ADHD is minor for me, other times it's been a major contributor to issues; but I have to have a level of introspection to even catch when certain parts of my diagnosis are sitting at high tide or low tide... Sometimes I can remember every detail of every interaction and task for weeks at a time, nearing eidedic memory; but most days I'll misplace a knife I was just using for butter.. and yesterday I forgot all the time I spent doing chores because I essentially was on auto-pilot, my wife thanked me, I said "for what?" high tide and low tide... I'll hyperfocus on creating a task-list for a project I'm super excited about, and __usually__ forget the Trello board exists or misplace the papers or let the notes go through the wash or... high tide and low tide... Some days I'll be able to fall asleep as soon as I lay down. Most days though I can't get my brain to shut up, taking notes to free up the brain space makes more room for something else to jump in, meditation/breathing exercises are momentary fixes that don't last long enough to allow sleep to come, a glass of water or bathroom break turns into an hour on reddit, etc and then suddenly it's 5am... high tide and low tide...
- DocG 7y ago
  But then you want to go to sleep and your mind keeps making these things up and you can't go to sleep for hours at time until you are just so exhausted that it takes over after three hours laying in bed.... I'm coping by putting podcasts on almost audible levels when going to sleep, otherwise there would be no sleep. This helps to distract the mind just enough to pass out. But lately it's working worse and worse....
jlangemeier 7y ago
This is doubly/triply/quadrupley difficult for those of us with ADHD; I've spent years working on meditation, and I only get glimpses of silence; and that's only on the best of days. To take a medical condition such as ADHD and say, "hooboy, everyone gets distracted" is to entirely dismiss what those of us with it are dealing with. It's not just sometimes I get distracted; it's nearly all the time I get distracted if I am not bringing my 'A' game to even the simplest of tasks - without exacting intentionality there's no chance I'll have the left-over neurons to even think about being in the present. So, it doesn't just take intentionality, as most people can clip off daydreaming or rabbithole trains of thought with minimal friction, but for many of us with ADHD the act of attempting to break the "distraction cycle" can essentially have the opposite effect, or just left turn us into another avenue of distraction. I know for myself, there's an anxiety that builds when actively (we can't passively quiet our brains) attempting to quiet my brain; as the doubt builds as you find it more and more difficult to step away from your racing brain and into the now. This becomes a self defeating cycle which is difficult to steer out of when attempting something like meditation.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  "I've spent years working on meditation, and I only get glimpses of silence; and that's only on the best of days." Just out of curiosity, what meditation technique do you use, and what's been the longest meditation session that you've had without quieting your mind? For me, who doesn't suffer from ADHD, and whose technique of meditation consists of simply focusing on the sensation of air flowing past my nostrils as I breathe, I'll always eventually quiet my mind if I meditate long enough. The primary challenge is just giving it enough of a chance instead of getting up and doing something else. Of course, even when mind quieting is achieved, the moments of quietness are of finite duration, and some thought or other will eventually (usually sooner rather than later) pop in.
  - jlangemeier 7y ago
    I suppose I should clarify some as well; 'traditional' mainstream meditation doesn't work well for me; I've spent up to an hour doing either box breathing or air flow focus breathing as attempts to clear my focus and quiet my brain, and in general it just doesn't reach a desired effect. On the regular though, I would say I average about 15 to 30 minutes a day attempting this meditation form. This may at best allow for 3-5 second times of 'blank' space but never longer. That being said, I do martial arts, and I would compare intense focus on performing an intermediate to long kata to the generally expressed trance or meditative states; and in those times I would consider it similar to either art or programming flow. And I think that's where the distinction is, as 'traditional' meditation tends to be a more passive meditation style that doesn't work well with the active needs to essentially distract my brain into a present tense form.
pmoriarty 7y ago
While we're on the subject of meditation books, I can recommend Mindfulness in Plain English[1] and The Heart of Buddhist Meditation.[2] [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-English-Bhante-Henepola-Gunarantana/dp/1536610208 https://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-English-Bhante-Henepola-G... [2] - http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/the_heart_of_buddhist_meditation.pdf http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/the_heart_of_...

by keyanp 7y ago

fxtentacle 7y ago

I have the exact same thing, but I always thought of it as a brilliant feature, not as a problem. As soon as I sit around and get bored, my brain will make up absurd daydreams and stories. Usually they are pretty funny, so afterwards I feel relaxed and happy. Isn't that the whole point of taking a break?

jlangemeier 7y ago
Imagine that brilliant feature isn't just "a break" but the norm... it's not just "when I get bored," it's: - In the middle of flow - Trying to fall asleep - Trying to go back to sleep - In the middle of important conversations - During meetings - even one's you're leading - When you're getting dressed - When you're making breakfast (where the hell did I put the 3rd spoon I've pulled from the drawer) - When you're in intimate moments with a partner (or by yourself - no judgement here) - When you're making lunch (just burned my second grilled cheese because I can't stay on task for 5 minutes) - During exercise - During free-time and hobbies - Between small tasks - In the middle of small tasks - etc - etc - etc The article itself is about the issues surrounding the person's ADHD, not just "procrastination," which for many people is a good thing, because it's a brain break; but for many of us with ADHD it's the norm and a cycle we have to fight instead of embrace.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  That would be super annoying, I concur. I would say the article nicely highlights the problems with ADHD diagnosis, because when I read it, I thought for pretty much every point "oh I also do that sometimes"
  - jlangemeier 7y ago
    Yeah, they did a good job covering the social issue around it; as most people do most of what we do sometimes; and the key word is always 'sometimes,' ADHD is a daily occurrence of high tide and low tide marks for attention and active effort; some days are easier than others but that isn't always setting the bar very high. Like for me, depending on where I'm at in existence from day to day my therapist has said the 'H' portion of ADHD is minor for me, other times it's been a major contributor to issues; but I have to have a level of introspection to even catch when certain parts of my diagnosis are sitting at high tide or low tide... Sometimes I can remember every detail of every interaction and task for weeks at a time, nearing eidedic memory; but most days I'll misplace a knife I was just using for butter.. and yesterday I forgot all the time I spent doing chores because I essentially was on auto-pilot, my wife thanked me, I said "for what?" high tide and low tide... I'll hyperfocus on creating a task-list for a project I'm super excited about, and __usually__ forget the Trello board exists or misplace the papers or let the notes go through the wash or... high tide and low tide... Some days I'll be able to fall asleep as soon as I lay down. Most days though I can't get my brain to shut up, taking notes to free up the brain space makes more room for something else to jump in, meditation/breathing exercises are momentary fixes that don't last long enough to allow sleep to come, a glass of water or bathroom break turns into an hour on reddit, etc and then suddenly it's 5am... high tide and low tide...
DocG 7y ago
But then you want to go to sleep and your mind keeps making these things up and you can't go to sleep for hours at time until you are just so exhausted that it takes over after three hours laying in bed.... I'm coping by putting podcasts on almost audible levels when going to sleep, otherwise there would be no sleep. This helps to distract the mind just enough to pass out. But lately it's working worse and worse....

jlangemeier 7y ago

This is doubly/triply/quadrupley difficult for those of us with ADHD; I've spent years working on meditation, and I only get glimpses of silence; and that's only on the best of days. To take a medical condition such as ADHD and say, "hooboy, everyone gets distracted" is to entirely dismiss what those of us with it are dealing with. It's not just sometimes I get distracted; it's nearly all the time I get distracted if I am not bringing my 'A' game to even the simplest of tasks - without exacting intentionality there's no chance I'll have the left-over neurons to even think about being in the present. So, it doesn't just take intentionality, as most people can clip off daydreaming or rabbithole trains of thought with minimal friction, but for many of us with ADHD the act of attempting to break the "distraction cycle" can essentially have the opposite effect, or just left turn us into another avenue of distraction. I know for myself, there's an anxiety that builds when actively (we can't passively quiet our brains) attempting to quiet my brain; as the doubt builds as you find it more and more difficult to step away from your racing brain and into the now. This becomes a self defeating cycle which is difficult to steer out of when attempting something like meditation.

pmoriarty 7y ago
"I've spent years working on meditation, and I only get glimpses of silence; and that's only on the best of days." Just out of curiosity, what meditation technique do you use, and what's been the longest meditation session that you've had without quieting your mind? For me, who doesn't suffer from ADHD, and whose technique of meditation consists of simply focusing on the sensation of air flowing past my nostrils as I breathe, I'll always eventually quiet my mind if I meditate long enough. The primary challenge is just giving it enough of a chance instead of getting up and doing something else. Of course, even when mind quieting is achieved, the moments of quietness are of finite duration, and some thought or other will eventually (usually sooner rather than later) pop in.
- jlangemeier 7y ago
  I suppose I should clarify some as well; 'traditional' mainstream meditation doesn't work well for me; I've spent up to an hour doing either box breathing or air flow focus breathing as attempts to clear my focus and quiet my brain, and in general it just doesn't reach a desired effect. On the regular though, I would say I average about 15 to 30 minutes a day attempting this meditation form. This may at best allow for 3-5 second times of 'blank' space but never longer. That being said, I do martial arts, and I would compare intense focus on performing an intermediate to long kata to the generally expressed trance or meditative states; and in those times I would consider it similar to either art or programming flow. And I think that's where the distinction is, as 'traditional' meditation tends to be a more passive meditation style that doesn't work well with the active needs to essentially distract my brain into a present tense form.

pmoriarty 7y ago

While we're on the subject of meditation books, I can recommend Mindfulness in Plain English[1] and The Heart of Buddhist Meditation.[2] [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-English-Bhante-Henepola-Gunarantana/dp/1536610208 https://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-English-Bhante-Henepola-G... [2] - http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/the_heart_of_buddhist_meditation.pdf http://www.khamkoo.com/uploads/9/0/0/4/9004485/the_heart_of_...