7 ms·

In this particular case I find it very dishonest: they talk about net neutrality and privacy protection but use Google Analytics. It does not matter if GA or Ma

by Kovah 7y ago

In this particular case I find it very dishonest: they talk about net neutrality and privacy protection but use Google Analytics. It does not matter if GA or Matomo is the best solution, they made the decision to use GA and thus don't seem to value their customers data that much.

franga2000 7y ago
What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it, otherwise they wouldn't be using it - value which allows them to grow their business which ultimately benefits their users. (at least for me) Considering the value of their service, GA on their marketing page seems like a very small compromise. If you don't like it you are free to block it - hell, they literally provide a service to do so.
- GoblinSlayer 7y ago
  What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? Matomo is good enough.
  - franga2000 7y ago
    Depends on what you're looking for. Demographic data can be really important for a business and Matomo couldn't possibly provide that.
    - pcmaffey 7y ago
      If you’re collecting and relying on demographic data than privacy probably isn’t very important to you.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      What is demographic data and how is it collected?
      - aratakareigen 7y ago
        The age, gender, etc. distributions of the people who visit your website. I don't know anything about GA, but I'm guessing they'd know this from the currently signed in Google account.
        Nextgrid 7y ago
        What if people don't want to volunteer this information?
    - tripzilch 7y ago
      Where are you getting this demographic data? You don't get that from server logs. Sound like you're not arguing against Matomo but arguing that you really in fact do want to share data with a third party to extract information that your users very much did not consent to. It's terrifying what comes out of the wood works sometimes.
- Kovah 7y ago
  This is not about all or nothing. This is about being dishonest in my opinion. It's like a doctor who recommends you to stop smoking because it's bad, but smokes on its own.
  - matz1 7y ago
    It's not dishonest, whether something is good or bad is never absolute. Something that is bad for someone is not necessarily bad for others.
  - franga2000 7y ago
    The doctor smoking does not invalidate their assessment that smoking is bad for you, nor does it make his other "doctoring" services less quality. For more reasons why (some/small) compromises should be allowed and not considered completely against the core value, see religious extremism.
    - tripzilch 7y ago
      Sure thing, but the gigantic Google Analytics machine is hardly a small compromise versus all the other ubiquitous tracking. I don't even consider it a compromise, because literally no one arguing to use GA anyway seems to be able to present both sides of the scale considering the compromise.
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    There is no dishonesty there. Merely acting inconsistent to one's advice. It's not a serious deficiency. BTW, in a number of countries a large percentage of doctors smoke. It's a cultural thing: They pick up the habit during the stress of medical school. Would you suggest that a large percentage of doctors in those countries not inform patients that smoking is bad for them? As a politician recently complained about: Purity tests are usually a bad idea. It's fair to criticize. It's silly to reject their word/work because of it.
    - tripzilch 7y ago
      Except there's no doctor-patient discrepancy, most people in this thread are in the business and actually do have to make these choices based on their own expertise in the field. It's a lot more like if all doctors were telling each other they should wash their hands before surgery, but many of them don't really because the tap water is cold and kinda too far away and everybody is doing it and what's the harm really and at least I'm not actively sneezing into the wound, you know?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  > GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it Which is why everyone uses it and we just sit back and accept the consequences. You can't be expected to be taken seriously if you simultaneously argue that other's shouldn't do something while yourself use it for precisely the same reasons everyone else does.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? It's indicative of a lack of respect for their users. > GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it That's certainly true. Also, that's orthogonal to the point. Being very valuable to website operators doesn't make its use any more acceptable to others.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  > Considering the value of their service, GA on their marketing page seems like a very small compromise. It's not a compromise until you consider the value of both sides of the equation. Please do elaborate on that, with some details on the negative externalities of blindly sharing your tracking data with Google. Otherwise your argument just became "superior data has got some value to me, which is more than none, so yeah I got mine". It's not less of an all-or-nothing attitude if you fail to seriously consider the other side of the supposed compromise.

by Kovah 7y ago

franga2000 7y ago

What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it, otherwise they wouldn't be using it - value which allows them to grow their business which ultimately benefits their users. (at least for me) Considering the value of their service, GA on their marketing page seems like a very small compromise. If you don't like it you are free to block it - hell, they literally provide a service to do so.

GoblinSlayer 7y ago
What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? Matomo is good enough.
- franga2000 7y ago
  Depends on what you're looking for. Demographic data can be really important for a business and Matomo couldn't possibly provide that.
  - pcmaffey 7y ago
    If you’re collecting and relying on demographic data than privacy probably isn’t very important to you.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    What is demographic data and how is it collected?
    - aratakareigen 7y ago
      The age, gender, etc. distributions of the people who visit your website. I don't know anything about GA, but I'm guessing they'd know this from the currently signed in Google account.
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        What if people don't want to volunteer this information?
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    Where are you getting this demographic data? You don't get that from server logs. Sound like you're not arguing against Matomo but arguing that you really in fact do want to share data with a third party to extract information that your users very much did not consent to. It's terrifying what comes out of the wood works sometimes.
Kovah 7y ago
This is not about all or nothing. This is about being dishonest in my opinion. It's like a doctor who recommends you to stop smoking because it's bad, but smokes on its own.
- matz1 7y ago
  It's not dishonest, whether something is good or bad is never absolute. Something that is bad for someone is not necessarily bad for others.
- franga2000 7y ago
  The doctor smoking does not invalidate their assessment that smoking is bad for you, nor does it make his other "doctoring" services less quality. For more reasons why (some/small) compromises should be allowed and not considered completely against the core value, see religious extremism.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    Sure thing, but the gigantic Google Analytics machine is hardly a small compromise versus all the other ubiquitous tracking. I don't even consider it a compromise, because literally no one arguing to use GA anyway seems to be able to present both sides of the scale considering the compromise.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  There is no dishonesty there. Merely acting inconsistent to one's advice. It's not a serious deficiency. BTW, in a number of countries a large percentage of doctors smoke. It's a cultural thing: They pick up the habit during the stress of medical school. Would you suggest that a large percentage of doctors in those countries not inform patients that smoking is bad for them? As a politician recently complained about: Purity tests are usually a bad idea. It's fair to criticize. It's silly to reject their word/work because of it.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    Except there's no doctor-patient discrepancy, most people in this thread are in the business and actually do have to make these choices based on their own expertise in the field. It's a lot more like if all doctors were telling each other they should wash their hands before surgery, but many of them don't really because the tap water is cold and kinda too far away and everybody is doing it and what's the harm really and at least I'm not actively sneezing into the wound, you know?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it Which is why everyone uses it and we just sit back and accept the consequences. You can't be expected to be taken seriously if you simultaneously argue that other's shouldn't do something while yourself use it for precisely the same reasons everyone else does.
JohnFen 7y ago
> What is it with this all-or-nothing attitude? It's indicative of a lack of respect for their users. > GA provides objectively superior data and they probably get a lot of value from it That's certainly true. Also, that's orthogonal to the point. Being very valuable to website operators doesn't make its use any more acceptable to others.
tripzilch 7y ago
> Considering the value of their service, GA on their marketing page seems like a very small compromise. It's not a compromise until you consider the value of both sides of the equation. Please do elaborate on that, with some details on the negative externalities of blindly sharing your tracking data with Google. Otherwise your argument just became "superior data has got some value to me, which is more than none, so yeah I got mine". It's not less of an all-or-nothing attitude if you fail to seriously consider the other side of the supposed compromise.