5 ms·

Do we really need a deep conspiracy theory angle to explain the deprecation of a horribly lagging OS (Symbian) and a next-gen OS whose development was severely

Do we really need a deep conspiracy theory angle to explain the deprecation of a horribly lagging OS (Symbian) and a next-gen OS whose development was severely lagging even behind WP7? The board brought on Elop to do precisely what he did - any ire should be directed squarely at them. Say what you will about RIMM, at least they aren't striking at the prospect of QNX replacing their OS.

bergie 16y ago
It looks like even the previous gen (Maemo) of the next gen (MeeGo) has sold better than WP7
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- saturdaysaint 16y ago
  If you're referring to sales of the N900, it's shocking to remember that it shipped at almost the same time as the Motorola Droid (one of the first Android devices really suited to consumer needs). Consider all of the development to Android in the intervening 15 months, the dozens of models Google's partners introduced, the millions of units sold... the N900 is as relevant to this discussion as the Razr. WP7 hasn't been a runaway success, but at least it's stable, polished and backed by fairly advanced web services. The bet is essentially that Nokia's 1st rate supply chain combined with a polished new OS can sell more than either could have otherwise.
- jeswin 16y ago
  That talks more about Nokia's brand than about Maemo or Meego. I was among the first to buy a Maemo device, the hardware rocked but the software was average. As Nokia said, it is a war of eco-systems now; not devices. Even a low-end Android beats a better spec'ed Nokia because the software is so much better. The quality of apps on Ovi store says it all.
  - Geee 16y ago
    Yup, and now they totally gave up in the ecosystem wars giving their portion to Microsoft. Dumb move considering the market leader position (still over 30% with Symbian), brand loyalty, and huge mass of devoted developers. Technology pieces were falling in place with the newly announced Qt support on Ovi Store apps. There's no way someone thinks this deal was good for Nokia.
    - jeswin 16y ago
      Technology pieces were falling in place with the newly announced Qt support on Ovi Store apps? Really? The Ovi Store is pathetic, and even though they have improved a bit recently it comes nowhere close to the other platforms. Casual games are very important, Ovi has less to offer than the nascent Windows Marketplace. I am among the few who think this is better for Nokia, given the alternative. Nokia is a hardware company. They don't do great software, and they just accepted that fact. Btw, they might have a gotten a good deal with Microsoft too, given the situation MS itself is in. WP7 is a great OS, and the collaboration with Nokia could see it appearing on cheaper devices. Nokia is famous for making affordable devices that can survive a drop or two. In fact, I know many people who WANT a Nokia with a decent OS.
callumjones 16y ago
Probably because QNX is a lot more mature. MeeGo seemed like a side project/hobby.
- saturdaysaint 16y ago
  I'm comparing QNX more to WP7 (both OSes being brought in from the outside when internal development couldn't keep up with the competition).
  - callumjones 16y ago
    The thing is QNX alone was never the solution to RIM's problem, it's just a powerful OS. RIM did take a good look at itself and use other purchases and in house talent to build a pretty amazing UI on top of QNX.
mtw 16y ago
The partnership is still suspicious; any reasonable person would tell you Nokia should have picked Android instead. There's no competitive advantage picking up WP7, unless microsoft wanted to subsidize every nokia handset
- saturdaysaint 16y ago
  "Any reasonable person" Careful - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well There are serious competitive considerations for Nokia not choosing Android. I think Elop outlines them pretty intelligently here - http://video.allthingsd.com/video/nokia-ceo-on-choosing-windows-phone-over-android/A9024583-EBC9-4817-AD5E-A2569CA55F4B/ http://video.allthingsd.com/video/nokia-ceo-on-choosing-wind...
  - rst 16y ago
    It's interesting to see him acknowledge directly that his personal familiarity with Microsoft played a role in the decision (at about 1:00 in). But aside from that, well... opinions differ. At about 3:15, he said that the danger if they went with Android is: 1) The platform would succeed. 2) They'd be one among a crowd of Android phone manufacturers. 3) It would be hard to differentiate from the others. Contrast that to Windows Phone 7, where: 1) The platform is playing catch-up, and may fail entirely. 2) They're already one among a crowd of Windows Phone manufacturers, with LG, Samsung and HTC already shipping, and Dell having devices in the pipeline. 3) The party that controls the platform has chosen not to allow differentiation, requiring all the devices to be lookalikes[1]. On all his supposed drawbacks of Android, WP7 looks even worse. There's some other odd stuff in the video, which begs for explanation. He starts by saying that "Microsoft has placed a large bet on us." But it isn't yet obvious why Microsoft has bet more on Nokia's success than it has on the success of the other WP7 handset manufacturers. And if they have, I can't imagine HTC or Samsung being happy about it. There's also some stuff at about 2:30 about how each party has licensed technology from the other, with an implication (though not an outright statement) that money might be flowing both ways. If that's true, it raises the possibility that the sale of an HTC WP7 handset results in royalty payments to Nokia, for the mapping technology that Microsoft has licensed. That could cause real friction with the other vendors. (To clarify: the mapping technology bit was part of the announcement, though it wasn't clear what it was doing there; the payment structures were not announced, but Elop did seem to imply in that video that money would be going both ways, and I'm not sure what other reason there is that Microsoft would have to write checks to Nokia.) [1] http://mobilementalism.com/2011/02/12/the-photo-the-nokia-fanboys-dreaded/ http://mobilementalism.com/2011/02/12/the-photo-the-nokia-fa... has a photo (second in the post) with a bunch of them. They all really do look alike.
siika2000 16y ago
There's no need for conspiracy theories, but this is something that should not be overlooked either. Elop's decisions influence two very large companies and their shareholders, and one small to medium sized country and its taxpayers. One thing is to make sure that his actions are legal (which they appear to be, unsurprisingly), and other is to understand the context and biases he is operating with.

bergie 16y ago

It looks like even the previous gen (Maemo) of the next gen (MeeGo) has sold better than WP7

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
saturdaysaint 16y ago
If you're referring to sales of the N900, it's shocking to remember that it shipped at almost the same time as the Motorola Droid (one of the first Android devices really suited to consumer needs). Consider all of the development to Android in the intervening 15 months, the dozens of models Google's partners introduced, the millions of units sold... the N900 is as relevant to this discussion as the Razr. WP7 hasn't been a runaway success, but at least it's stable, polished and backed by fairly advanced web services. The bet is essentially that Nokia's 1st rate supply chain combined with a polished new OS can sell more than either could have otherwise.
jeswin 16y ago
That talks more about Nokia's brand than about Maemo or Meego. I was among the first to buy a Maemo device, the hardware rocked but the software was average. As Nokia said, it is a war of eco-systems now; not devices. Even a low-end Android beats a better spec'ed Nokia because the software is so much better. The quality of apps on Ovi store says it all.
- Geee 16y ago
  Yup, and now they totally gave up in the ecosystem wars giving their portion to Microsoft. Dumb move considering the market leader position (still over 30% with Symbian), brand loyalty, and huge mass of devoted developers. Technology pieces were falling in place with the newly announced Qt support on Ovi Store apps. There's no way someone thinks this deal was good for Nokia.
  - jeswin 16y ago
    Technology pieces were falling in place with the newly announced Qt support on Ovi Store apps? Really? The Ovi Store is pathetic, and even though they have improved a bit recently it comes nowhere close to the other platforms. Casual games are very important, Ovi has less to offer than the nascent Windows Marketplace. I am among the few who think this is better for Nokia, given the alternative. Nokia is a hardware company. They don't do great software, and they just accepted that fact. Btw, they might have a gotten a good deal with Microsoft too, given the situation MS itself is in. WP7 is a great OS, and the collaboration with Nokia could see it appearing on cheaper devices. Nokia is famous for making affordable devices that can survive a drop or two. In fact, I know many people who WANT a Nokia with a decent OS.

callumjones 16y ago

Probably because QNX is a lot more mature. MeeGo seemed like a side project/hobby.

saturdaysaint 16y ago
I'm comparing QNX more to WP7 (both OSes being brought in from the outside when internal development couldn't keep up with the competition).
- callumjones 16y ago
  The thing is QNX alone was never the solution to RIM's problem, it's just a powerful OS. RIM did take a good look at itself and use other purchases and in house talent to build a pretty amazing UI on top of QNX.

mtw 16y ago

The partnership is still suspicious; any reasonable person would tell you Nokia should have picked Android instead. There's no competitive advantage picking up WP7, unless microsoft wanted to subsidize every nokia handset

saturdaysaint 16y ago
"Any reasonable person" Careful - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well There are serious competitive considerations for Nokia not choosing Android. I think Elop outlines them pretty intelligently here - http://video.allthingsd.com/video/nokia-ceo-on-choosing-windows-phone-over-android/A9024583-EBC9-4817-AD5E-A2569CA55F4B/ http://video.allthingsd.com/video/nokia-ceo-on-choosing-wind...
- rst 16y ago
  It's interesting to see him acknowledge directly that his personal familiarity with Microsoft played a role in the decision (at about 1:00 in). But aside from that, well... opinions differ. At about 3:15, he said that the danger if they went with Android is: 1) The platform would succeed. 2) They'd be one among a crowd of Android phone manufacturers. 3) It would be hard to differentiate from the others. Contrast that to Windows Phone 7, where: 1) The platform is playing catch-up, and may fail entirely. 2) They're already one among a crowd of Windows Phone manufacturers, with LG, Samsung and HTC already shipping, and Dell having devices in the pipeline. 3) The party that controls the platform has chosen not to allow differentiation, requiring all the devices to be lookalikes[1]. On all his supposed drawbacks of Android, WP7 looks even worse. There's some other odd stuff in the video, which begs for explanation. He starts by saying that "Microsoft has placed a large bet on us." But it isn't yet obvious why Microsoft has bet more on Nokia's success than it has on the success of the other WP7 handset manufacturers. And if they have, I can't imagine HTC or Samsung being happy about it. There's also some stuff at about 2:30 about how each party has licensed technology from the other, with an implication (though not an outright statement) that money might be flowing both ways. If that's true, it raises the possibility that the sale of an HTC WP7 handset results in royalty payments to Nokia, for the mapping technology that Microsoft has licensed. That could cause real friction with the other vendors. (To clarify: the mapping technology bit was part of the announcement, though it wasn't clear what it was doing there; the payment structures were not announced, but Elop did seem to imply in that video that money would be going both ways, and I'm not sure what other reason there is that Microsoft would have to write checks to Nokia.) [1] http://mobilementalism.com/2011/02/12/the-photo-the-nokia-fanboys-dreaded/ http://mobilementalism.com/2011/02/12/the-photo-the-nokia-fa... has a photo (second in the post) with a bunch of them. They all really do look alike.

siika2000 16y ago

There's no need for conspiracy theories, but this is something that should not be overlooked either. Elop's decisions influence two very large companies and their shareholders, and one small to medium sized country and its taxpayers. One thing is to make sure that his actions are legal (which they appear to be, unsurprisingly), and other is to understand the context and biases he is operating with.