4 ms·

Like Google Wave? So does this have an open protocol? Server-to-Server communication? I don't see where it can be compared to wave. They seem to compare it to

by buster 16y ago

Like Google Wave? So does this have an open protocol? Server-to-Server communication? I don't see where it can be compared to wave. They seem to compare it to IRC, but also IRC is a protocol, convore is just a service. I still hope wave sees some progress as apache project. :(

geoffw8 16y ago
Your saying you don't see ANY likeness to Google Wave? I'll give you a hint: the front-end user layer.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  The front-end? The technical demo? The least existing part of Google Wave? If that's all, it's nothing like Google Wave. Edit: I should point out that if you don't understand what buster or I am talking about, don't worry. A lot of people don't. It's Google's failed marketing of Wave that did this. Basically, people thought Google Wave was MS Outlook, or Gmail. It wasn't. Wave was essentially email, comments, chat, communication, etc. Once you start understanding everything it could do, and understand that everyone already knew how to use Wave, you really started to appreciate what they were trying to do.
  - geoffw8 16y ago
    Look at it at a higher level. Convore, to a certain extent is like Wave.
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      To me that is like saying a glider is like the space shuttle. No disrespect to Convore, but comparing it to Wave is naive.
- buster 16y ago
  Yes, so you didn't get it, too. Wave isn't the sandbox you've seen on the web. If i remember correctly, the webclient didn't even use the "real protocol" but some hacked-together protocol buffers for demonstration purposes. Not sure about today, but when the beta started there wasn't even an official client/server protocol. It was still under discussion[1]. Sadly, the world never saw the "real" Wave, with server-to-server communication, different clients, etc. [1] https://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/thread/184b66dfb3b9a24d?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/...
mechanical_fish 16y ago
This is why Wave failed. Nobody knew quite what it was. They still don't know. Moreover: nobody cares. People do not care how the tools work. They care about their problems. Having an online conversation in the right mode - not too high-latency, yet not too synchronous, and not too disorganized - is a problem. Users understand that IRC and Wave and Convore are all billed as attempts to solve that problem. Therefore, they are all kind of alike. If people actually use these tools for a while even non-engineers will eventually come to understand the substantial differences between them, but another way that Wave and Convore and IRC are all alike is that right now most customers have never heard of them, let alone tried them, let alone figured them out.
- buster 16y ago
  It's a shame, really. Even in my job nobody seemed to "get it" when i tried to explain benefits and the "real" nature of wave (that it's a protocol). And i'm working in a heavily messaging (mail, etc.) oriented company. I got everyone beta accounts and yet nobody got it. It was all about the sandbox/webclient. I think Google did a lot wrong with the promotion of wave. Anyway, i'm eagerly waiting for the completion of the incubator process on apache[1] and will take another look at the state of wave afterwards. I still think the project is one of the most underrated projects of the last years. I very much hope that the project won't just die. [1] http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-in-a-box/apache-incubator-roadmap http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-in-a-box/apache-incubator-r...
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    I am right there with you. I now exactly what you are talking about. Every time I hear someone dismiss it, they dismiss out of ignorance. I've never heard otherwise, even from some otherwise smart people.
  - axod 16y ago
    Anyone can write a protocol though. That's the easy bit. They failed to create a killer product.
    - 16y ago

by buster 16y ago

geoffw8 16y ago

Your saying you don't see ANY likeness to Google Wave? I'll give you a hint: the front-end user layer.

jasonlotito 16y ago
The front-end? The technical demo? The least existing part of Google Wave? If that's all, it's nothing like Google Wave. Edit: I should point out that if you don't understand what buster or I am talking about, don't worry. A lot of people don't. It's Google's failed marketing of Wave that did this. Basically, people thought Google Wave was MS Outlook, or Gmail. It wasn't. Wave was essentially email, comments, chat, communication, etc. Once you start understanding everything it could do, and understand that everyone already knew how to use Wave, you really started to appreciate what they were trying to do.
- geoffw8 16y ago
  Look at it at a higher level. Convore, to a certain extent is like Wave.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    To me that is like saying a glider is like the space shuttle. No disrespect to Convore, but comparing it to Wave is naive.
buster 16y ago
Yes, so you didn't get it, too. Wave isn't the sandbox you've seen on the web. If i remember correctly, the webclient didn't even use the "real protocol" but some hacked-together protocol buffers for demonstration purposes. Not sure about today, but when the beta started there wasn't even an official client/server protocol. It was still under discussion[1]. Sadly, the world never saw the "real" Wave, with server-to-server communication, different clients, etc. [1] https://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/thread/184b66dfb3b9a24d?pli=1 https://groups.google.com/group/wave-protocol/browse_thread/...

mechanical_fish 16y ago

This is why Wave failed. Nobody knew quite what it was. They still don't know. Moreover: nobody cares. People do not care how the tools work. They care about their problems. Having an online conversation in the right mode - not too high-latency, yet not too synchronous, and not too disorganized - is a problem. Users understand that IRC and Wave and Convore are all billed as attempts to solve that problem. Therefore, they are all kind of alike. If people actually use these tools for a while even non-engineers will eventually come to understand the substantial differences between them, but another way that Wave and Convore and IRC are all alike is that right now most customers have never heard of them, let alone tried them, let alone figured them out.

buster 16y ago
It's a shame, really. Even in my job nobody seemed to "get it" when i tried to explain benefits and the "real" nature of wave (that it's a protocol). And i'm working in a heavily messaging (mail, etc.) oriented company. I got everyone beta accounts and yet nobody got it. It was all about the sandbox/webclient. I think Google did a lot wrong with the promotion of wave. Anyway, i'm eagerly waiting for the completion of the incubator process on apache[1] and will take another look at the state of wave afterwards. I still think the project is one of the most underrated projects of the last years. I very much hope that the project won't just die. [1] http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-in-a-box/apache-incubator-roadmap http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-in-a-box/apache-incubator-r...
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  I am right there with you. I now exactly what you are talking about. Every time I hear someone dismiss it, they dismiss out of ignorance. I've never heard otherwise, even from some otherwise smart people.
- axod 16y ago
  Anyone can write a protocol though. That's the easy bit. They failed to create a killer product.
  - 16y ago