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A considerable number of these "green billionaires" are riding on the backs of Lithium battery development and production. Lithium mining, refining, and the bat

A considerable number of these "green billionaires" are riding on the backs of Lithium battery development and production. Lithium mining, refining, and the battery-making process hardly seem green to me. Is there any research (not funded by these billionaires) to show definitively that battery production is a substantial net gain?

legitster 7y ago
#3: Wind-power manufacturing #4: Paper recycling #5: Solar cell manufacturing #6: Renewable power #7: Solar manufacturing About half of them have nothing to do with lithium.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- vermilingua 7y ago
  50% is pretty much how I would define "considerable". Additionally, solar is also made of some pretty awful stuff. Better than burning dead tree, but by how much?
  - montalbano 7y ago
    In addition to my other comment on amortising manufacturing pollution of electric cars, see the below scientific articles on the time required for energy payback of solar panels. Many people are investigating this. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123859341000374 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978012385... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038092X01000330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00380...
    - vermilingua 7y ago
      Thank you for these. The solar articles talk about the energy payback of the PV systems, but is this necessarily equal to the environmental cost to produce them? I would think that energy usage != CO2 cost, as energy may not factor in mining, refining, etc.
montalbano 7y ago
There appears to be signficant research on the time it takes for various green technologies to amortise their manufacturing pollution cost. For example the article below estimates a time period of 6 - 18 months for some electric car models. That seems a little low to me so I would like to review the literature a bit more before making any serious claims. Then obviously the greenness of running the car depends on the source of charging electricity. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/electric-car-well-to-wheel-emissions-myth/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/electric-car-well-to-wh... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are...
dwaltrip 7y ago
I'm sure there is plenty of room for improvement in how sustainable and environmentally friendly the manufacturing processes for batteries are. However, such activities are certainly greener than dumping 20 gigatons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year.

legitster 7y ago

#3: Wind-power manufacturing #4: Paper recycling #5: Solar cell manufacturing #6: Renewable power #7: Solar manufacturing About half of them have nothing to do with lithium.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vermilingua 7y ago
50% is pretty much how I would define "considerable". Additionally, solar is also made of some pretty awful stuff. Better than burning dead tree, but by how much?
- montalbano 7y ago
  In addition to my other comment on amortising manufacturing pollution of electric cars, see the below scientific articles on the time required for energy payback of solar panels. Many people are investigating this. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123859341000374 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978012385... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038092X01000330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00380...
  - vermilingua 7y ago
    Thank you for these. The solar articles talk about the energy payback of the PV systems, but is this necessarily equal to the environmental cost to produce them? I would think that energy usage != CO2 cost, as energy may not factor in mining, refining, etc.

montalbano 7y ago

There appears to be signficant research on the time it takes for various green technologies to amortise their manufacturing pollution cost. For example the article below estimates a time period of 6 - 18 months for some electric car models. That seems a little low to me so I would like to review the literature a bit more before making any serious claims. Then obviously the greenness of running the car depends on the source of charging electricity. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/electric-car-well-to-wheel-emissions-myth/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/19/electric-car-well-to-wh... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are...

dwaltrip 7y ago

I'm sure there is plenty of room for improvement in how sustainable and environmentally friendly the manufacturing processes for batteries are. However, such activities are certainly greener than dumping 20 gigatons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year.