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Probably being downvoted because it's just anecdote, but I've had at least two friends who shamelessly did the same thing with their dogs. I doubt this is uncom

Probably being downvoted because it's just anecdote, but I've had at least two friends who shamelessly did the same thing with their dogs. I doubt this is uncommon given how easy the loophole is to exploit.

chrisseaton 7y ago
> I doubt this is uncommon I've never seen any animal in an aircraft cabin, and I fly a fair bit. How does it work even when it is completely legitimate? Do you just ask the animal politely not to go to the toilet for 12 hours or however long? What if they have an accident? How on earth do you clean that up and deal the smell in a cramped space?
- kelnos 7y ago
  I'm reminded of a recent flight I took where I was in the last seat of first class (yay upgrade!) and, right behind me, in the bulkhead economy seat, there was a not-small, long-haired dog (40-50 lbs maybe?) just lying on the floor in front of the owner's seat, not restrained in any way. It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. I'm mildly allergic... it was not a pleasant flight for me at all.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    > It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. You have the dog do its business beforehand. Same way most dogs are able to stay indoors while its owner(s) are at work for the day.
  - rhexs 7y ago
    I've always been confused by this -- if you're allergic to dogs, and the flight is required to have a dog on it for whatever reason, is the airline then liable for any and all medical bills related to an allergic reaction after the flight? Are you not entitled to reasonable accommodation as well?
    - kelnos 7y ago
      I'm not sure... I guess maybe it depends on how severe the allergy is and how much of an issue you make of it. For me it's not life-threatening; it just makes me uncomfortable: a little nasal congestion, and perhaps my eyes feel a little itchy. I didn't say anything on that particular flight, but perhaps if I had, they could have accommodated me somehow.
      - CaptainZapp 7y ago
        For me it's not life-threatening Same here. It's not life threatening. But depending on the dog it can mean real misery for an extended time. I usually have medications in my travel kit. But until a pill works it takes an hour and it can be too late. I wouldn't complain about service animals. But scumbags, who are just too cheap to pay for proper transportation of their pet severely piss me off. Thankfully it's not such a big issue in Europe.
- Kalium 7y ago
  I flew with a cat in a carrier. He was quite cooperative, but also quite happy to be free after being in a tiny, loud space for many hours. Also some airports have animal relief areas on the airside.
- amluto 7y ago
  Genuine service animals are extremely well behaved. The training is no joke, and a large fraction of the animals fail out. It’s likely that you’ve been on a plane with a service animal and not noticed. Service animals can contentedly sit or lie down silently for hours without attracting attention. They know when they are on the job and they behave accordingly. As for very long flights, I imagine that a service dog can do its business in a small bag or box. Also, a well trained animal will pee or poop on command before a flight and can go for quite a while without peeing or pooping. It could make sense to require accredited training programs for service animals. Poorly behaved “service” animals are a problem for those who need real service animals.
  - Kalium 7y ago
    I believe service animal training is already accredited. The issue here is that businesses are in the habit of trusting the "Service Animal" labeling and not checking if it's genuine or someone's ESA.
    - silencio 7y ago
      there are some reputable training schools (like guide dogs for the blind and canine companions for independence), but there is no real accreditation. there's maybe organizations like assistance dogs international, that hold member schools to standards, but not much beyond that. the ada explicitly doesn't allow any kind of request for documentation or certification either. basically you just have to take people at face value when you ask them if the animal is required because of a disability. and lots of people with ESAs are okay being very casual about that. (and the reason i can figure out why people with ESAs are okay with bending the truth compared to a trained service animal, is because they tend to be the ones that are VERY upset in two situations that are legal: the one where i negotiate different accommodations because i'm very allergic to dog dander, and the one where they get upset that a misbehaving ESA is being asked to leave the premises. having been around dozens of trained service animals - i've never seen one misbehave the way ESAs can, and everyone is happy with my suggestions due to my allergy since i go above and beyond, rather than making things more difficult.)
    - 7y ago
- reaperducer 7y ago
  How does it work even when it is completely legitimate I've done it with cats. They were required by the airline to have a health certificate from a vet stating that they were healthy enough to fly, to be kept in their container at all times, and I had to pay a fee. I think it was $200 last time. The vet also supplies tranquilizers to give the animal just before the flight. That keeps it calm and helps prevent it from needing to use the litter box. Coast-to-coast isn't a problem. 12 hours? Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it. At one time you could mail a cat. I mailed one from Charleston to New York using Delta's package service. The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold, but it still needed documentation from the vet. I don't know if that's still allowed.
  - m463 7y ago
    > The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold This kills pets all the time due to low temperature. Source: friend who used to work for the airlines.
    - jstarfish 7y ago
      There was a high-profile incident a few years ago where a contender for "world's largest rabbit" died in the cargo hold. Happens to stowaways too. As much of an annoyance as animals in the cabin are, the cargo hold is not conducive to supporting mammalian life.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
        Could you put them in a special temperature-regulating box? But that would be bulky and perhaps cruel…
  - manigandham 7y ago
    > "Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it." People travel and move with their pets all the time. There are procedures for transporting them, including flying separately on cargo flights.
  - 7y ago
- baddox 7y ago
  I'm shocked you've never seen one. I fly pretty rarely, generally just 2 or 3 US domestic flights per year, and while I don't actually keep count, I'm relatively certain I see a small dog in a little cube-shaped bag on nearly every flight.
  - kmonsen 7y ago
    If they are small enough they don’t have to be service animals.
- topkai22 7y ago
  I used to fly with my dog occasionally, and I followed all the rules: 1) Required to bring a recent veterinary certificate of health 2) Pay $75-125 to bring the animal on. 3) Demonstrate the animal weighs less then 20 lbs. 4) Demonstrate the animal can fit in a soft sided crate that fits underneath an aircraft seat 5) give up having a personal item 6) keep the animal crated underneath the seat in front of you. My dog never did his business on a flight (we never flew more than 6h and he was used to staying home way longer then that), but I had baggies ready to go.
- diN0bot 7y ago
  i was once delayed because a dog on the arriving plane made such a mess that they needed to clean three rows of seats. they had to bring in a new plane for us because that one required specialized cleaning. “there was shit everywhere” kind of thing. i can’t look at dogs on plane the same way after that. must have been terrifying for the dog, and disgusting for the people. ps - i’ve seen a toddler with poop riding up his back on a plane, too. mom had her hands full with three kids! ive been an obsessed loving dog owner myself, but i don’t like how people try to compare dogs to babies and toddlers. i think it’s demeaning to the “small person”.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mroche 7y ago
  Anecdotal but I had 2 round trip flights between SFO and Logan (Thanksgiving/Christmas) and on each one there was at least one very small dog in the cabin. They were not service dogs, just people taking advantage of ESA to take their pets with them over the holidays. Unless there’s some Jet Blue thing I’m not aware of.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    I think on every flight I take it's 99% business people maybe that's why.
  - jghn 7y ago
    JetBlue allows small dogs in the cabin
    - mroche 7y ago
      It would appear so: https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/ https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/
- easytiger 7y ago
  Are you flying North American companies to/from USA and domestic? I've never seen it on a European airline. Suspect the rules are different And no. The animal goes to the toilet as it normally would
- jbarberu 7y ago
  With cats you'd take away their food and water about 8-10h before the flight. We took our cats in cabin from Sweden -> Florida, about 19h total door to door. They were real champs with no accidents. We lined the soft carriers with puppy pads (similar absorbent material as diapers) just in case.
kelnos 7y ago
I can't imagine it's uncommon at all. It runs from people just buying harnesses/vests for their animal that says "Service Animal", to people who have a friend who is a doctor (not even a psychologist or related field) who will write them a doctor's note proclaiming their animal a service animal. I know both of these types of people, and I know they've brought their dogs on planes based on this. It's disgusting and makes me uncomfortable whenever I'm at an establishment with them that usually doesn't allow pets.
- Wooo0pdaddy 7y ago
  stop associating with scumbags.
- i_am_nomad 7y ago
  Stop associating with scumbags.
  - derefr 7y ago
    Do you mean, stop having them as coworkers in a bigcorp? Or, stop having them as neighbours in your apartment building? Oh, you meant, stop being friends with scumbags. They probably aren’t.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- morpheuskafka 7y ago
  I would imagine in the latter case that the doctor would not be pleased to hear that their friend told you this story, as something like that could be grounds for disciplinary action on their license. Totally unacceptable to sign false documentation and seriously calls into question their professional integrity.
Consultant32452 7y ago
My friend got her cats registered as emotional support animals to avoid the pet fee at her apartment. Turns out they can't charge you if it's 'medically necessary'.
ta999999171 7y ago
...these are your friends?

chrisseaton 7y ago

> I doubt this is uncommon I've never seen any animal in an aircraft cabin, and I fly a fair bit. How does it work even when it is completely legitimate? Do you just ask the animal politely not to go to the toilet for 12 hours or however long? What if they have an accident? How on earth do you clean that up and deal the smell in a cramped space?

kelnos 7y ago
I'm reminded of a recent flight I took where I was in the last seat of first class (yay upgrade!) and, right behind me, in the bulkhead economy seat, there was a not-small, long-haired dog (40-50 lbs maybe?) just lying on the floor in front of the owner's seat, not restrained in any way. It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. I'm mildly allergic... it was not a pleasant flight for me at all.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  > It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. You have the dog do its business beforehand. Same way most dogs are able to stay indoors while its owner(s) are at work for the day.
- rhexs 7y ago
  I've always been confused by this -- if you're allergic to dogs, and the flight is required to have a dog on it for whatever reason, is the airline then liable for any and all medical bills related to an allergic reaction after the flight? Are you not entitled to reasonable accommodation as well?
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I'm not sure... I guess maybe it depends on how severe the allergy is and how much of an issue you make of it. For me it's not life-threatening; it just makes me uncomfortable: a little nasal congestion, and perhaps my eyes feel a little itchy. I didn't say anything on that particular flight, but perhaps if I had, they could have accommodated me somehow.
    - CaptainZapp 7y ago
      For me it's not life-threatening Same here. It's not life threatening. But depending on the dog it can mean real misery for an extended time. I usually have medications in my travel kit. But until a pill works it takes an hour and it can be too late. I wouldn't complain about service animals. But scumbags, who are just too cheap to pay for proper transportation of their pet severely piss me off. Thankfully it's not such a big issue in Europe.
Kalium 7y ago
I flew with a cat in a carrier. He was quite cooperative, but also quite happy to be free after being in a tiny, loud space for many hours. Also some airports have animal relief areas on the airside.
amluto 7y ago
Genuine service animals are extremely well behaved. The training is no joke, and a large fraction of the animals fail out. It’s likely that you’ve been on a plane with a service animal and not noticed. Service animals can contentedly sit or lie down silently for hours without attracting attention. They know when they are on the job and they behave accordingly. As for very long flights, I imagine that a service dog can do its business in a small bag or box. Also, a well trained animal will pee or poop on command before a flight and can go for quite a while without peeing or pooping. It could make sense to require accredited training programs for service animals. Poorly behaved “service” animals are a problem for those who need real service animals.
- Kalium 7y ago
  I believe service animal training is already accredited. The issue here is that businesses are in the habit of trusting the "Service Animal" labeling and not checking if it's genuine or someone's ESA.
  - silencio 7y ago
    there are some reputable training schools (like guide dogs for the blind and canine companions for independence), but there is no real accreditation. there's maybe organizations like assistance dogs international, that hold member schools to standards, but not much beyond that. the ada explicitly doesn't allow any kind of request for documentation or certification either. basically you just have to take people at face value when you ask them if the animal is required because of a disability. and lots of people with ESAs are okay being very casual about that. (and the reason i can figure out why people with ESAs are okay with bending the truth compared to a trained service animal, is because they tend to be the ones that are VERY upset in two situations that are legal: the one where i negotiate different accommodations because i'm very allergic to dog dander, and the one where they get upset that a misbehaving ESA is being asked to leave the premises. having been around dozens of trained service animals - i've never seen one misbehave the way ESAs can, and everyone is happy with my suggestions due to my allergy since i go above and beyond, rather than making things more difficult.)
  - 7y ago
reaperducer 7y ago
How does it work even when it is completely legitimate I've done it with cats. They were required by the airline to have a health certificate from a vet stating that they were healthy enough to fly, to be kept in their container at all times, and I had to pay a fee. I think it was $200 last time. The vet also supplies tranquilizers to give the animal just before the flight. That keeps it calm and helps prevent it from needing to use the litter box. Coast-to-coast isn't a problem. 12 hours? Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it. At one time you could mail a cat. I mailed one from Charleston to New York using Delta's package service. The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold, but it still needed documentation from the vet. I don't know if that's still allowed.
- m463 7y ago
  > The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold This kills pets all the time due to low temperature. Source: friend who used to work for the airlines.
  - jstarfish 7y ago
    There was a high-profile incident a few years ago where a contender for "world's largest rabbit" died in the cargo hold. Happens to stowaways too. As much of an annoyance as animals in the cabin are, the cargo hold is not conducive to supporting mammalian life.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
      Could you put them in a special temperature-regulating box? But that would be bulky and perhaps cruel…
- manigandham 7y ago
  > "Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it." People travel and move with their pets all the time. There are procedures for transporting them, including flying separately on cargo flights.
- 7y ago
baddox 7y ago
I'm shocked you've never seen one. I fly pretty rarely, generally just 2 or 3 US domestic flights per year, and while I don't actually keep count, I'm relatively certain I see a small dog in a little cube-shaped bag on nearly every flight.
- kmonsen 7y ago
  If they are small enough they don’t have to be service animals.
topkai22 7y ago
I used to fly with my dog occasionally, and I followed all the rules: 1) Required to bring a recent veterinary certificate of health 2) Pay $75-125 to bring the animal on. 3) Demonstrate the animal weighs less then 20 lbs. 4) Demonstrate the animal can fit in a soft sided crate that fits underneath an aircraft seat 5) give up having a personal item 6) keep the animal crated underneath the seat in front of you. My dog never did his business on a flight (we never flew more than 6h and he was used to staying home way longer then that), but I had baggies ready to go.
diN0bot 7y ago
i was once delayed because a dog on the arriving plane made such a mess that they needed to clean three rows of seats. they had to bring in a new plane for us because that one required specialized cleaning. “there was shit everywhere” kind of thing. i can’t look at dogs on plane the same way after that. must have been terrifying for the dog, and disgusting for the people. ps - i’ve seen a toddler with poop riding up his back on a plane, too. mom had her hands full with three kids! ive been an obsessed loving dog owner myself, but i don’t like how people try to compare dogs to babies and toddlers. i think it’s demeaning to the “small person”.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mroche 7y ago
Anecdotal but I had 2 round trip flights between SFO and Logan (Thanksgiving/Christmas) and on each one there was at least one very small dog in the cabin. They were not service dogs, just people taking advantage of ESA to take their pets with them over the holidays. Unless there’s some Jet Blue thing I’m not aware of.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  I think on every flight I take it's 99% business people maybe that's why.
- jghn 7y ago
  JetBlue allows small dogs in the cabin
  - mroche 7y ago
    It would appear so: https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/ https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/
easytiger 7y ago
Are you flying North American companies to/from USA and domestic? I've never seen it on a European airline. Suspect the rules are different And no. The animal goes to the toilet as it normally would
jbarberu 7y ago
With cats you'd take away their food and water about 8-10h before the flight. We took our cats in cabin from Sweden -> Florida, about 19h total door to door. They were real champs with no accidents. We lined the soft carriers with puppy pads (similar absorbent material as diapers) just in case.

kelnos 7y ago

I can't imagine it's uncommon at all. It runs from people just buying harnesses/vests for their animal that says "Service Animal", to people who have a friend who is a doctor (not even a psychologist or related field) who will write them a doctor's note proclaiming their animal a service animal. I know both of these types of people, and I know they've brought their dogs on planes based on this. It's disgusting and makes me uncomfortable whenever I'm at an establishment with them that usually doesn't allow pets.

Wooo0pdaddy 7y ago
stop associating with scumbags.
i_am_nomad 7y ago
Stop associating with scumbags.
- derefr 7y ago
  Do you mean, stop having them as coworkers in a bigcorp? Or, stop having them as neighbours in your apartment building? Oh, you meant, stop being friends with scumbags. They probably aren’t.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
morpheuskafka 7y ago
I would imagine in the latter case that the doctor would not be pleased to hear that their friend told you this story, as something like that could be grounds for disciplinary action on their license. Totally unacceptable to sign false documentation and seriously calls into question their professional integrity.

Consultant32452 7y ago

My friend got her cats registered as emotional support animals to avoid the pet fee at her apartment. Turns out they can't charge you if it's 'medically necessary'.

ta999999171 7y ago

...these are your friends?