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I remember being in an airport and having a woman I was sitting next to openly admit to me that her dog she was bringing on the plane she had "just went online

• allovernow 7y ago
  Probably being downvoted because it's just anecdote, but I've had at least two friends who shamelessly did the same thing with their dogs. I doubt this is uncommon given how easy the loophole is to exploit.
  • chrisseaton 7y ago
    > I doubt this is uncommon I've never seen any animal in an aircraft cabin, and I fly a fair bit. How does it work even when it is completely legitimate? Do you just ask the animal politely not to go to the toilet for 12 hours or however long? What if they have an accident? How on earth do you clean that up and deal the smell in a cramped space?
    • kelnos 7y ago
      I'm reminded of a recent flight I took where I was in the last seat of first class (yay upgrade!) and, right behind me, in the bulkhead economy seat, there was a not-small, long-haired dog (40-50 lbs maybe?) just lying on the floor in front of the owner's seat, not restrained in any way. It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. I'm mildly allergic... it was not a pleasant flight for me at all.
      • Marsymars 7y ago
        > It wasn't an excessively long flight (~5 hours), but still, not sure how they could ensure the dog wouldn't need to go to the bathroom in that time. You have the dog do its business beforehand. Same way most dogs are able to stay indoors while its owner(s) are at work for the day.
      • rhexs 7y ago
        I've always been confused by this -- if you're allergic to dogs, and the flight is required to have a dog on it for whatever reason, is the airline then liable for any and all medical bills related to an allergic reaction after the flight? Are you not entitled to reasonable accommodation as well?
        • kelnos 7y ago
          I'm not sure... I guess maybe it depends on how severe the allergy is and how much of an issue you make of it. For me it's not life-threatening; it just makes me uncomfortable: a little nasal congestion, and perhaps my eyes feel a little itchy. I didn't say anything on that particular flight, but perhaps if I had, they could have accommodated me somehow.
          • CaptainZapp 7y ago
            For me it's not life-threatening Same here. It's not life threatening. But depending on the dog it can mean real misery for an extended time. I usually have medications in my travel kit. But until a pill works it takes an hour and it can be too late. I wouldn't complain about service animals. But scumbags, who are just too cheap to pay for proper transportation of their pet severely piss me off. Thankfully it's not such a big issue in Europe.
    • Kalium 7y ago
      I flew with a cat in a carrier. He was quite cooperative, but also quite happy to be free after being in a tiny, loud space for many hours. Also some airports have animal relief areas on the airside.
    • amluto 7y ago
      Genuine service animals are extremely well behaved. The training is no joke, and a large fraction of the animals fail out. It’s likely that you’ve been on a plane with a service animal and not noticed. Service animals can contentedly sit or lie down silently for hours without attracting attention. They know when they are on the job and they behave accordingly. As for very long flights, I imagine that a service dog can do its business in a small bag or box. Also, a well trained animal will pee or poop on command before a flight and can go for quite a while without peeing or pooping. It could make sense to require accredited training programs for service animals. Poorly behaved “service” animals are a problem for those who need real service animals.
      • Kalium 7y ago
        I believe service animal training is already accredited. The issue here is that businesses are in the habit of trusting the "Service Animal" labeling and not checking if it's genuine or someone's ESA.
        • silencio 7y ago
          there are some reputable training schools (like guide dogs for the blind and canine companions for independence), but there is no real accreditation. there's maybe organizations like assistance dogs international, that hold member schools to standards, but not much beyond that. the ada explicitly doesn't allow any kind of request for documentation or certification either. basically you just have to take people at face value when you ask them if the animal is required because of a disability. and lots of people with ESAs are okay being very casual about that. (and the reason i can figure out why people with ESAs are okay with bending the truth compared to a trained service animal, is because they tend to be the ones that are VERY upset in two situations that are legal: the one where i negotiate different accommodations because i'm very allergic to dog dander, and the one where they get upset that a misbehaving ESA is being asked to leave the premises. having been around dozens of trained service animals - i've never seen one misbehave the way ESAs can, and everyone is happy with my suggestions due to my allergy since i go above and beyond, rather than making things more difficult.)
        • 7y ago
    • reaperducer 7y ago
      How does it work even when it is completely legitimate I've done it with cats. They were required by the airline to have a health certificate from a vet stating that they were healthy enough to fly, to be kept in their container at all times, and I had to pay a fee. I think it was $200 last time. The vet also supplies tranquilizers to give the animal just before the flight. That keeps it calm and helps prevent it from needing to use the litter box. Coast-to-coast isn't a problem. 12 hours? Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it. At one time you could mail a cat. I mailed one from Charleston to New York using Delta's package service. The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold, but it still needed documentation from the vet. I don't know if that's still allowed.
      • m463 7y ago
        > The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold This kills pets all the time due to low temperature. Source: friend who used to work for the airlines.
        • jstarfish 7y ago
          There was a high-profile incident a few years ago where a contender for "world's largest rabbit" died in the cargo hold. Happens to stowaways too. As much of an annoyance as animals in the cabin are, the cargo hold is not conducive to supporting mammalian life.
          • TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
            Could you put them in a special temperature-regulating box? But that would be bulky and perhaps cruel…
      • manigandham 7y ago
        > "Animals shouldn't fly intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it." People travel and move with their pets all the time. There are procedures for transporting them, including flying separately on cargo flights.
      • 7y ago
    • baddox 7y ago
      I'm shocked you've never seen one. I fly pretty rarely, generally just 2 or 3 US domestic flights per year, and while I don't actually keep count, I'm relatively certain I see a small dog in a little cube-shaped bag on nearly every flight.
      • kmonsen 7y ago
        If they are small enough they don’t have to be service animals.
    • topkai22 7y ago
      I used to fly with my dog occasionally, and I followed all the rules: 1) Required to bring a recent veterinary certificate of health 2) Pay $75-125 to bring the animal on. 3) Demonstrate the animal weighs less then 20 lbs. 4) Demonstrate the animal can fit in a soft sided crate that fits underneath an aircraft seat 5) give up having a personal item 6) keep the animal crated underneath the seat in front of you. My dog never did his business on a flight (we never flew more than 6h and he was used to staying home way longer then that), but I had baggies ready to go.
    • diN0bot 7y ago
      i was once delayed because a dog on the arriving plane made such a mess that they needed to clean three rows of seats. they had to bring in a new plane for us because that one required specialized cleaning. “there was shit everywhere” kind of thing. i can’t look at dogs on plane the same way after that. must have been terrifying for the dog, and disgusting for the people. ps - i’ve seen a toddler with poop riding up his back on a plane, too. mom had her hands full with three kids! ive been an obsessed loving dog owner myself, but i don’t like how people try to compare dogs to babies and toddlers. i think it’s demeaning to the “small person”.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • mroche 7y ago
      Anecdotal but I had 2 round trip flights between SFO and Logan (Thanksgiving/Christmas) and on each one there was at least one very small dog in the cabin. They were not service dogs, just people taking advantage of ESA to take their pets with them over the holidays. Unless there’s some Jet Blue thing I’m not aware of.
      • chrisseaton 7y ago
        I think on every flight I take it's 99% business people maybe that's why.
      • jghn 7y ago
        JetBlue allows small dogs in the cabin
        • mroche 7y ago
          It would appear so: https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/ https://mobile2.jetblue.com/travel/pets/
    • easytiger 7y ago
      Are you flying North American companies to/from USA and domestic? I've never seen it on a European airline. Suspect the rules are different And no. The animal goes to the toilet as it normally would
    • jbarberu 7y ago
      With cats you'd take away their food and water about 8-10h before the flight. We took our cats in cabin from Sweden -> Florida, about 19h total door to door. They were real champs with no accidents. We lined the soft carriers with puppy pads (similar absorbent material as diapers) just in case.
  • kelnos 7y ago
    I can't imagine it's uncommon at all. It runs from people just buying harnesses/vests for their animal that says "Service Animal", to people who have a friend who is a doctor (not even a psychologist or related field) who will write them a doctor's note proclaiming their animal a service animal. I know both of these types of people, and I know they've brought their dogs on planes based on this. It's disgusting and makes me uncomfortable whenever I'm at an establishment with them that usually doesn't allow pets.
    • Wooo0pdaddy 7y ago
      stop associating with scumbags.
    • i_am_nomad 7y ago
      Stop associating with scumbags.
      • derefr 7y ago
        Do you mean, stop having them as coworkers in a bigcorp? Or, stop having them as neighbours in your apartment building? Oh, you meant, stop being friends with scumbags. They probably aren’t.
      • dang 7y ago
        Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    • morpheuskafka 7y ago
      I would imagine in the latter case that the doctor would not be pleased to hear that their friend told you this story, as something like that could be grounds for disciplinary action on their license. Totally unacceptable to sign false documentation and seriously calls into question their professional integrity.
  • Consultant32452 7y ago
    My friend got her cats registered as emotional support animals to avoid the pet fee at her apartment. Turns out they can't charge you if it's 'medically necessary'.
  • ta999999171 7y ago
    ...these are your friends?
• vkou 7y ago
  > I just remember being so blown away that she assumed a stranger would be 100% on board with this tactic as to tell me about it unvarnished that I was stunned into silence. It doesn't matter if you're on board with this tactic or not. What are you going to do? Tell the flight attendant? Will they believe you, or her? Do you think they will want to adjudicate a 'he said she said', when the consequences of adjudicating wrongly might be 'we harassed a person who has a legitimate service animal'? [1] Are they going to throw the person in question off the plane, with a parachute? Ban them from flying with that airline? Sue them for tricking the airline? Will taking any of these actions make the flight attendant's life easier? The person who told you probably expected there to not be any consequences, even if you rat them out, and they are probably correct. [1] The ADA loves these kinds of situations. I would be shocked if airlines didn't train their staff to uncritically accept claims that a dog is a service animal. The cost of accepting a dog on board are low. The cost of telling a person with a disability to go pound sand can be a six-figure lawsuit.
• airstrike 7y ago
  How long ago was that? Rules have changed a lot in the last 1-2 years, and "registering online" doesn't really cut it anymore. These days, traveling with an ESA is much harder. You need to actually submit a form signed by your doctor / psychologist / therapist to the airlines 48 hours prior to departure to register the animal on the flight.
• c3534l 7y ago
  I've had so much trouble shipping my cat with me going places for an extended period of time during the winter. Almost everyone tells me to just register him as a service animal. Those same people would gasp in horror at the idea of pretending to be disabled for preferential treatment in any other situation.
  • reaperducer 7y ago
    I find this very curious, as I've traveled with a cat on coast-to-coast flights three times. All I had to do was pay a fee to the airline and provide proof of health at check-in. I did it on Delta, Northwest (now also Delta), and United. Which airlines are giving you problems?
    • c3534l 7y ago
      My cat is too large to fit under the seat. FAA regulations no longer allow you to purchase a seat for a cat either. The only option is to put the cat in cargo. This has led to a problem almost every time I've flown. Problems I've had include: 1. It's too cold to transport the cat to cargo. 2. My flight gets rerouted, but in a way that's different from my cat's flight. 3. The health certificate must be the salmon copy, not the canary copy. 4. Here is the regulation that I found that says in the state I'm coming from, it's the canary copy that gets given to the airline. What do you mean I have to get a second health certificate from a vet in this state? I've flown multiple times and I've never had to go through this before. 5. Here is your goddamned salmon copy of the health certificate. What do you mean the letter of acclimation expired? Last week he could withstand temperatures of 35 degrees for brief periods of time, but all of a sudden this week he can't? 6. The letter of acclimation is missing, or incorrect, or I forgot it and the vet says she'll fax a new one to the office, but then half an hour later it still isn't there and I missed the flight cutoff. 7. A change in flights means the health certificate is no longer valid and I have to get another one. 8. Cargo is closed at that time. Their system shouldn't have even let me book that flight. Nobody is sure how this even possible. Mostly it's just the first one, but this means sometimes I have to repeatedly cancel and rebook my flight which is expensive and annoying.
• Waterluvian 7y ago
  I think the mistake we are all prone to is assuming that everyone experiences existence approximately the same way that we do. It might not be that she was so bold as to admit her wrongdoing, but that she simply doesn't possess whatever it is that causes someone to actively analyze and predict the world around them.
  • kmonsen 7y ago
    I noticed this more and more, people are starting to become unable to understand that others have a different subjective experience of the world that is just as valid.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • bnegreve 7y ago
      But is this a new thing?
    • TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
      Is theory of mind really so rare?
• NikolaNovak 7y ago
  Indeed. I love dogs too but happen to be allergic. As are a lot of us. Boggles my mind that this is just not even considered by either airlines or pet owners, when bringing them into closed-air-circulation system where we're trapped like sardines for many hours :< I was seated next to a person with a small furry dog, who proceeded to tell me how hypoallergenic (marketing thing - no such thing) it was as I proceeded to sneeze and leek the entire flight :<
  • azinman2 7y ago
    I’m sure you could have asked to have been moved. Ironically they won’t serve peanuts if anyone is deadly allergic.
    • mcchew 7y ago
      Ironically? Peanut allergies tend to be leagues worse than pet allergies, not that the latter should be discounted completely.
    • pb7 7y ago
      It's exceedingly rare for airlines to even have peanuts as an option for this reason (maybe never?). Do you remember any recent examples where they had them?
      • dawnerd 7y ago
        Fairly recently with southwest. Delta seems to have switched to almonds instead - which IMO are better. You're lucky if you get any snacks though these days.
        • pb7 7y ago
          I fly relatively frequently across a wide array of airlines and even before this discussion noticed the stark absence of peanuts. I can even picture the red Southwest branded packet of pretzels as the “default classic” option. Hmm, interesting. Edit: Can confirm, no more peanuts on Southwest either: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/southwest-airlines-is-getting-rid-of-peanuts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/09/southwest-airlines-is-gettin...
• dpcan 7y ago
  She didn't care about telling you because you didn't do anything about it, and she knew you wouldn't. People are starting to realize that everyone else is so caught up in their own crap they will never take the time to concern themselves with someone else's.
• kortilla 7y ago
  Yep, I’ve had many people at the dog park talk about this like it’s just “the way you travel with your dog”.
• reaperducer 7y ago
  I love dogs, but you're ruining everything for the people who actually need service animals. I saw a dog with one of those fake "Emotional support animal" vests on take a dump in the frozen food aisle of the supermarket. When it was done, the owner just kept on walking. People who use animals as fashion accessories and to draw attention to themselves should be punished. Sadly, the Starbucks near me not only allows pets in, it has a corkboard where people are encouraged to post photos of their animals in the store.
  • joegahona 7y ago
    Animals defecating in supermarkets seems very different from a Starbucks allowing its customers to post pet photos in the cafe.
• WalterBright 7y ago
  There's a big sign newly appeared in the local supermarket that says service animals are welcome, but pretend service animals will get a large fine.
  • TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    How are they going to know, though?
    • WalterBright 7y ago
      It doesn't say how, but says there's a $500 fine and lists RCW 49.60.040 as the law.
• droithomme 7y ago
  I also know several people that have bragged about printing out a internet fill in the blanks certificate claiming that their pet is a registered emotional support service animal, which they then of course use to bully the airlines into letting their pet ride in the cabin. I also have completely had it with the large numbers of people I see at a nearby supermarket who walk their dogs, meet other dogs, treat the store as a dog park, and even let their dogs ride in the shopping carts with the food. It needs to stop. Have talked to the store manager who is sympathetic but says that all these people have certificates claiming the animal is a service animal and they are thus legally required to allow the animals in.
• m463 7y ago
  I'm not opposed to service animals in any way, but this is purely a money grab: > Spirit Airlines Inc told regulators it lost “millions of dollars in pet carriage fees from passengers fraudulently claiming their ‘house pets are service or support animals.’” They just want the pet fee to let an animal in a carrier replace the normal underseat luggage. I'm not sure what the fee is for Spirit Airlines, but for United Airlines it is $125 each direction.
  • ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
    $125 is steep, but if you have a dog that sheds, it's hard to argue it wouldn't be harder to clean up all that hair versus cleaning up after your average passenger.
    • gok 7y ago
      That's $125 and you have to keep the dog locked up in a bag the entire flight, so I don't see how it could affect their cleaning.
    • cyphar 7y ago
      On the other hand, it does mean that effective ticket prices would now be more expensive for people who have service animals. While not necessarily malicious, it is a form of discrimination. Airlines don't charge overweight passengers extra for seatbelt extenders.
    • akamia 7y ago
      You're required to keep the dog in the bag under the seat for the entire flight so they shouldn't really affect cleaning. I have two issues with the fee. 1) It only covers one way. For a round trip itinerary you are looking at $250 - $400 for the pet fee. That can be more expensive than the actual ticket. 2) Your pet counts as your carry on item. I would be a little less bothered if the dog was allowed in addition to your carry on and personal items or if the airline included a free checked bag with the fee to offset the carry on. Since the dog counts as your carry on, you have to pay an additional $25+ each way to check a bag you might've otherwise carried on the plane.
• fossuser 7y ago
  I’d guess this is the case for 90% of the animals on planes. I’ll rarely see a real service dog that’s actually trained and wearing a real vest. Most are fake ESAs (fake in the sense that there’s no real regulation or standard and it’s just to give the appearance of being official or service dog like so people are afraid to deny the pet). I think this is unethical and makes it harder for people with real service dogs, but I find a lot of dog owners get angry when I’ve mentioned this and blame the airlines for making it hard to fly with pets.
  • zone411 7y ago
    It's possible to fly with a dog under the seat that is not an ESA or a service dog. So I really doubt it's the case for 90% of the animals you see.
    • cpncrunch 7y ago
      There's usually a limit of 20lb including the carrying case, which rules out most dogs from flying in the cabin unless they are registered as an ESA. See Mr Bentley for a good example.
  • jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    You're an animal
• cgriswald 7y ago
  An ESA is not a service animal and there is no registry. There are just a bunch of idiots and/or scumbags who register their animal for a piece of paper that they think is a golden ticket for their pets. In a few very limited circumstances an ESA is allowed in places that “just a pet” is not, but AFAIAA this is not enshrined in law, just something some places do that aren’t otherwise legally prohibited from allowing animals and the only place I know for sure requires a note from a mental health professional. There is also no registry for service animals, but there are companies that train those animals and they can be queried about training and legitimacy. Next time someone says they have a service animal, ask them what service it performs. If they don’t have a ready response, they’re full of it. And if their animal isn’t well behaved, they’re also full of it. My dog is a retired service animal. She performed seizure alert and response. She could (and probably still can) save a life. If she was on your flight you’d only know if you happened to see her. And frankly the other passengers would be more of a problem for her than she would be to anyone. ESAs and liars create a lot of problems for legitimate service animals. I won’t point out any specific posts but there’s an incredible amount of ignorance in these threads and I’d bet it’s all due to negative experiences with people who don’t have service animals. Service animals save lives. The people who need them really need them. Lying about a service animal is like lying about needing a wheelchair. Complaining about them is like complaining about a wheelchair blocking the aisle. These animals are no joke. They’re extremely heavily trained. Many animals don’t make it through these programs. Some of them are worth more than your car.
  • smichel17 7y ago
    Adding on: training a service animal costs hundreds to thousands of dollars. It's poetically not something you do so you can bring your dog on a flight with you.
  • CaptainZapp 7y ago
    Add to that: I'm allergic to dogs. Depending on the dog it may be hardly a problem or maybe a minor inconvenience, but other times it can turn into hours of misery. And all because of an asshole who's too cheap to cough up 100$ for the proper transportation of his "support" animal.
• pontifier 7y ago
  This tactic is extremely common among our tenants. No one has pets anymore, they are all emotional support animals.
• bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
  It’s odd that people feel proud of successfully lying about being handicapped to obtain special privileges.