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My understanding is that service animals are already limited to just dogs and miniature horses. It sounds like this is just allowing airlines to ignore ESAs as

My understanding is that service animals are already limited to just dogs and miniature horses. It sounds like this is just allowing airlines to ignore ESAs as a privileged category. Edit: After some digging, apparently the Aviation Carrier Access Act[1] does not use the ADA definition for service animals, but instead uses its own definition, which is more expansive [2]. ___ 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Carrier_Access_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Carrier_Access_Act 2. https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/service-animals-including-emotional-support-animals https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...

tinus_hn 7y ago
Clearly your understanding is wrong, or the new rules would not be required.
- quickthrowman 7y ago
  His understanding is mostly correct: > Service animals are defined as dogs and miniature horses that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. [0] The headline refers to service animals, but the article refers to barring emotional support animals and removing mini-horses as service animals that can fly: > The U.S. Transportation Department on Wednesday proposed giving airlines the power to bar emotional support animals from cabins and limit the definition of a service animal to a trained dog. [0] https://www.esaregistration.org/faq/#top https://www.esaregistration.org/faq/#top
ryan-allen 7y ago
Horses? On a plane? I'm curious as to the... logistics.
- justincredible 7y ago
  I have had it with these motherfucking [horses] on this motherfucking plane!
koolba 7y ago
In case you’re like me and didn’t believe that “miniature horses” are a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse Man those things are cute! No idea how you’d travel with one in a cattle class US economy seat though.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  You'd travel like this: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-transportation-rules-airlines-must-allow-miniature-horses-as-service-animals https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-transportatio...
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  They sit in the bulkhead row in front of the person. There's more in this NYT article about miniature horses being used as service animals (including photos): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-service-plane.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-service... "For some blind people [...] guide horses serve as a compelling alternative to guide dogs. The animals are mild-mannered and fast learners, with nearly 360-degree vision. They may also offer balance support to individuals with physical disabilities." Also, dogs only live for 8-10 years, while miniature horses live for 35-40 years. They can easily fit in the back seat of a hatchback.
  - User23 7y ago
    The main downside for the blind guide horse user is having every single person that sees them run up and say some variant of "OMG IS THAT A HORSE!?!?!?!" Even with a dog blind persons just trying to go about their business get a ton of unwanted attention and a horse draws an order of magnitude more. One also needs to be able to pasture it. It doesn't take a ton of land, but a guide dog can live in an urban apartment and a horse can't, at least not without being miserable.
mdasen 7y ago
Service animals are meant to be able to help accommodate physical tasks. Most animals aren't good for these tasks and there are a few animals that work well for this. Emotional support animals can have a much broader definition because what someone derives emotional support from can vary widely. No one would argue that a turtle is likely to help someone walk down the street. However, emotional attachments could make a turtle emotionally supportive. This is why emotional support animals are such a nebulous category. Some people will argue for registration or notes from doctors. However, that really just means that people with means get what they want (whether they need it or not) while other patients might go lacking. For example, medical marijuana was a way for friends of mine to go to a doctor they knew would prescribe it, pay a little money, and get access to it. A registration system that relied on such a sign-off might similarly be a very small hoop to jump through. Plus, what happens when someone arrives with a fake registration? This isn't even a judgement on that person in particular. Unscrupulous people will create registries that are fake and get people to pay fees and provide them with a print out. This is something that's really hard to get right. Let's say that 99% of people are good people. If you're on a 300 seat plane, the likelihood of at least one crappy person is decent. I think this goes deeper into what we do about the small minority of people who think that anything they do to get what they want is ok. What do we do about the person who thinks, "I'm just running into the store for 5 minutes, I can park in the bike lane"? In that case, it's easy because there isn't a legitimate reason for that behavior. But when there are legitimate reasons, it becomes a lot more difficult. What do we do about the person who thinks, "I won't have to pay to fly my pet if I claim they're treating a psychological issue"? In that case, there's no great answer. Barriers can also harm people who need the animals. Given what I've seen with medical pot, I'm not sure that it would provide a large barrier for people with a little money/privilege. I personally find it angering when people abuse systems set up to help people. I really dislike flying with animals on a plane. At the same time, I'm not sure I could support this rule change. Emotional support isn't the same as physical assistance. It doesn't require the same training or animal types. Maybe we're going to start saying (as a society) that if you need emotional support, you'd better get it from one of the few sanctioned animal types. I think the biggest issue is requiring the same training as physical assistant animals. Service animal training costs a lot of money and that's going to put a large burden on people that might not have that kind of money. What do we do in situations where a small number of people abuse something meant to improve people's lives when there's no great way of discerning who is legitimate in their need and who is abusing it?
drewmol 7y ago
They are not. That's why clarification is needed here. The Americans with Disabilities Act prevents discrimination against service animals without expressly defining them. As of last time I checked there was no federally approved or recognized training requirements or certification program that is required to proclaim a pet as a service animal. For less that >$30 on amazon you get a vest and official tag, the ADA created a bit of a mess.

tinus_hn 7y ago

Clearly your understanding is wrong, or the new rules would not be required.

quickthrowman 7y ago
His understanding is mostly correct: > Service animals are defined as dogs and miniature horses that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. [0] The headline refers to service animals, but the article refers to barring emotional support animals and removing mini-horses as service animals that can fly: > The U.S. Transportation Department on Wednesday proposed giving airlines the power to bar emotional support animals from cabins and limit the definition of a service animal to a trained dog. [0] https://www.esaregistration.org/faq/#top https://www.esaregistration.org/faq/#top

ryan-allen 7y ago

Horses? On a plane? I'm curious as to the... logistics.

justincredible 7y ago
I have had it with these motherfucking [horses] on this motherfucking plane!

koolba 7y ago

In case you’re like me and didn’t believe that “miniature horses” are a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse Man those things are cute! No idea how you’d travel with one in a cattle class US economy seat though.

clouddrover 7y ago
You'd travel like this: https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-transportation-rules-airlines-must-allow-miniature-horses-as-service-animals https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-transportatio...
frosted-flakes 7y ago
They sit in the bulkhead row in front of the person. There's more in this NYT article about miniature horses being used as service animals (including photos): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-service-plane.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-service... "For some blind people [...] guide horses serve as a compelling alternative to guide dogs. The animals are mild-mannered and fast learners, with nearly 360-degree vision. They may also offer balance support to individuals with physical disabilities." Also, dogs only live for 8-10 years, while miniature horses live for 35-40 years. They can easily fit in the back seat of a hatchback.
- User23 7y ago
  The main downside for the blind guide horse user is having every single person that sees them run up and say some variant of "OMG IS THAT A HORSE!?!?!?!" Even with a dog blind persons just trying to go about their business get a ton of unwanted attention and a horse draws an order of magnitude more. One also needs to be able to pasture it. It doesn't take a ton of land, but a guide dog can live in an urban apartment and a horse can't, at least not without being miserable.

mdasen 7y ago

Service animals are meant to be able to help accommodate physical tasks. Most animals aren't good for these tasks and there are a few animals that work well for this. Emotional support animals can have a much broader definition because what someone derives emotional support from can vary widely. No one would argue that a turtle is likely to help someone walk down the street. However, emotional attachments could make a turtle emotionally supportive. This is why emotional support animals are such a nebulous category. Some people will argue for registration or notes from doctors. However, that really just means that people with means get what they want (whether they need it or not) while other patients might go lacking. For example, medical marijuana was a way for friends of mine to go to a doctor they knew would prescribe it, pay a little money, and get access to it. A registration system that relied on such a sign-off might similarly be a very small hoop to jump through. Plus, what happens when someone arrives with a fake registration? This isn't even a judgement on that person in particular. Unscrupulous people will create registries that are fake and get people to pay fees and provide them with a print out. This is something that's really hard to get right. Let's say that 99% of people are good people. If you're on a 300 seat plane, the likelihood of at least one crappy person is decent. I think this goes deeper into what we do about the small minority of people who think that anything they do to get what they want is ok. What do we do about the person who thinks, "I'm just running into the store for 5 minutes, I can park in the bike lane"? In that case, it's easy because there isn't a legitimate reason for that behavior. But when there are legitimate reasons, it becomes a lot more difficult. What do we do about the person who thinks, "I won't have to pay to fly my pet if I claim they're treating a psychological issue"? In that case, there's no great answer. Barriers can also harm people who need the animals. Given what I've seen with medical pot, I'm not sure that it would provide a large barrier for people with a little money/privilege. I personally find it angering when people abuse systems set up to help people. I really dislike flying with animals on a plane. At the same time, I'm not sure I could support this rule change. Emotional support isn't the same as physical assistance. It doesn't require the same training or animal types. Maybe we're going to start saying (as a society) that if you need emotional support, you'd better get it from one of the few sanctioned animal types. I think the biggest issue is requiring the same training as physical assistant animals. Service animal training costs a lot of money and that's going to put a large burden on people that might not have that kind of money. What do we do in situations where a small number of people abuse something meant to improve people's lives when there's no great way of discerning who is legitimate in their need and who is abusing it?

drewmol 7y ago

They are not. That's why clarification is needed here. The Americans with Disabilities Act prevents discrimination against service animals without expressly defining them. As of last time I checked there was no federally approved or recognized training requirements or certification program that is required to proclaim a pet as a service animal. For less that >$30 on amazon you get a vest and official tag, the ADA created a bit of a mess.