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journalist's thread > NEW: Saudi officials close to MBS tell WSJ they were aware of a plan to hack Bezos' phone, but not of any attempt to blackmail him. Qahta

by mzs 7y ago

journalist's thread > NEW: Saudi officials close to MBS tell WSJ they were aware of a plan to hack Bezos' phone, but not of any attempt to blackmail him. Qahtani was involved in the hacking effort as part of a broader intimidation campaign against Khashoggi, officials said. More: FBI is investigating the hack, source says. Bezos didn’t want to provide his phone directly to the FBI, so FTI Consulting, where several former FBI officials work, conducted probe but stayed in touch with law enforcement, the person said. WhatsApp was not contacted by FTI during the investigation, a person familiar with the matter said. Also new: Oct 2018 contract btwn Michael Sanchez and AMI gave rights to “certain information, photographs, and text messages documenting an affair between Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez.” Mr. Sanchez "acquired Confidential Information lawfully,” stated contract, seen by WSJ. https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/1220073641326665731 https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/1220073641326665731

wyxuan 7y ago
Sure they said that, but they likely did that to cover up the Saudi hack of Bezo's phone
- ggm 7y ago
  Occam's razor cuts both ways. If you believe the conspiracy, the most likely reason is the bad one. But, its conjecture at best, either way. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. we can't tell.
- mzs 7y ago
  Of course it's possible that in April the folks working for MBS realized that Bezos was not going to place his thumb on the reporting done by WaPo so they hacked his phone primarily as a means to spy and get ahead of future news, then they found compromising materials and used AMI to try and blackmail Bezos, but that is all speculation.
MiroF 7y ago
> Bezos didn’t want to provide his phone directly to the FBI telling..
- xxpor 7y ago
  I'm fairly certain any lawyer would tell you that the right move.
meowface 7y ago
Is there evidence of explicit attempted blackmailing? Based on the screenshotted WhatsApp messages, it kind of seemed more like vengeance and taunting than extortion. There's surely an implied "this is what happens when you fuck with us", and an attempt to instill fear in Bezos, but I think he'd have to be really naive to seriously believe the threat of exposing an affair would actually get Bezos to tell the Washington Post to back off from reporting on Saudi Arabia. Even if that sort of thing has worked for him in the past, I think he's gotta know that's a pretty farfetched outcome for Bezos and WaPo. Not defending MBS, of course; he's obviously a megalomaniac despot who brutally murders critics and probably does all sorts of other horrific things the public isn't aware of. But I don't see evidence of demands made by him or anything like that in the report. If I were to bet on it, I suspect the primary intention was to spy on Bezos and his close contacts, with a secondary intention of petty revenge, and a third intention of intimidation. The Khashogghi thing felt like revenge, too, rather than some sort of cool-headed political calculus. You probably don't torture and chop someone up if you don't have a grudge. Intimidation definitely is in the same ballpark as blackmail, but it's not exactly the same. I think he might just feel the need to retaliate against who he considers his opponents, due to his immense ego and upbringing. WaPo, and, by extension, Bezos, may have genuinely hurt his ego. He's probably the most powerful human being alive - in his own mind. He may not be wise enough to realize all of this stuff inevitably ends up backfiring on him, with a geopolitical sort of Streisand effect. Though the intelligence he gained from a year's worth of access to Bezos' phone might have made it worth it in the end. If this is accurate, then the sources saying they were aware of the plan to hack Bezos' phone but not aware of an attempt to blackmail him may be technically telling the truth. Also, this is obviously all uninformed armchair psychoanalysis. I could easily be completely wrong about most or all of this.
- mzs 7y ago
  I was wondering why someone replied to me stating basically what was in the WSJ article* I submitted and then I noticed that the submission was changed to a Vice article instead. The Vice article based on the report obtained by Motherboard is interesting, but I don't think it captures what the original did. In part WSJ points-out: >Saudi government spokesmen didn't respond to a request for comment. Saudi officials close to the crown prince said they were aware of a plan to hack Mr. Bezos' phone, but not of any attempt to blackmail him. It seems to me that those officials are claiming that MBS wanted to merely influence coverage in WaPo via Bezos. Also this is not the first time MBS proponents have blamed Saud al Qahtani, so I take that part of the Vice article with some salt: https://nyti.ms/2W5YDkY https://nyti.ms/2W5YDkY Another aside from annex two of yesterday's OHCHR report: https://twitter.com/selectedwisdom/status/1220062905699393536 https://twitter.com/selectedwisdom/status/122006290569939353... >MBS meets Trump at White House March 20, 2018. According Bezos timeline, Bezos gets invite to dinner with MBS - March 21,2018. April 4, 2018 Bezos & MBS connect on WhatsApp * for those without a WSJ subscription, Dow Jones republished the article cause it appeared in print version of the WSJ https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215312/un-suggests-bezos-phone-was-hacked-using-saudi-crown-princes-account-3rd-update https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215312/un-... Also here is a statement from NSO https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215313/un-suggests-bezos-phone-was-hacked-using-saudi-2 https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215313/un-... edit: dang moved it, that's why I got confused https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124049

by mzs 7y ago

wyxuan 7y ago

Sure they said that, but they likely did that to cover up the Saudi hack of Bezo's phone

ggm 7y ago
Occam's razor cuts both ways. If you believe the conspiracy, the most likely reason is the bad one. But, its conjecture at best, either way. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. we can't tell.
mzs 7y ago
Of course it's possible that in April the folks working for MBS realized that Bezos was not going to place his thumb on the reporting done by WaPo so they hacked his phone primarily as a means to spy and get ahead of future news, then they found compromising materials and used AMI to try and blackmail Bezos, but that is all speculation.

MiroF 7y ago

> Bezos didn’t want to provide his phone directly to the FBI telling..

xxpor 7y ago
I'm fairly certain any lawyer would tell you that the right move.

meowface 7y ago

Is there evidence of explicit attempted blackmailing? Based on the screenshotted WhatsApp messages, it kind of seemed more like vengeance and taunting than extortion. There's surely an implied "this is what happens when you fuck with us", and an attempt to instill fear in Bezos, but I think he'd have to be really naive to seriously believe the threat of exposing an affair would actually get Bezos to tell the Washington Post to back off from reporting on Saudi Arabia. Even if that sort of thing has worked for him in the past, I think he's gotta know that's a pretty farfetched outcome for Bezos and WaPo. Not defending MBS, of course; he's obviously a megalomaniac despot who brutally murders critics and probably does all sorts of other horrific things the public isn't aware of. But I don't see evidence of demands made by him or anything like that in the report. If I were to bet on it, I suspect the primary intention was to spy on Bezos and his close contacts, with a secondary intention of petty revenge, and a third intention of intimidation. The Khashogghi thing felt like revenge, too, rather than some sort of cool-headed political calculus. You probably don't torture and chop someone up if you don't have a grudge. Intimidation definitely is in the same ballpark as blackmail, but it's not exactly the same. I think he might just feel the need to retaliate against who he considers his opponents, due to his immense ego and upbringing. WaPo, and, by extension, Bezos, may have genuinely hurt his ego. He's probably the most powerful human being alive - in his own mind. He may not be wise enough to realize all of this stuff inevitably ends up backfiring on him, with a geopolitical sort of Streisand effect. Though the intelligence he gained from a year's worth of access to Bezos' phone might have made it worth it in the end. If this is accurate, then the sources saying they were aware of the plan to hack Bezos' phone but not aware of an attempt to blackmail him may be technically telling the truth. Also, this is obviously all uninformed armchair psychoanalysis. I could easily be completely wrong about most or all of this.

mzs 7y ago
I was wondering why someone replied to me stating basically what was in the WSJ article* I submitted and then I noticed that the submission was changed to a Vice article instead. The Vice article based on the report obtained by Motherboard is interesting, but I don't think it captures what the original did. In part WSJ points-out: >Saudi government spokesmen didn't respond to a request for comment. Saudi officials close to the crown prince said they were aware of a plan to hack Mr. Bezos' phone, but not of any attempt to blackmail him. It seems to me that those officials are claiming that MBS wanted to merely influence coverage in WaPo via Bezos. Also this is not the first time MBS proponents have blamed Saud al Qahtani, so I take that part of the Vice article with some salt: https://nyti.ms/2W5YDkY https://nyti.ms/2W5YDkY Another aside from annex two of yesterday's OHCHR report: https://twitter.com/selectedwisdom/status/1220062905699393536 https://twitter.com/selectedwisdom/status/122006290569939353... >MBS meets Trump at White House March 20, 2018. According Bezos timeline, Bezos gets invite to dinner with MBS - March 21,2018. April 4, 2018 Bezos & MBS connect on WhatsApp * for those without a WSJ subscription, Dow Jones republished the article cause it appeared in print version of the WSJ https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215312/un-suggests-bezos-phone-was-hacked-using-saudi-crown-princes-account-3rd-update https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215312/un-... Also here is a statement from NSO https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215313/un-suggests-bezos-phone-was-hacked-using-saudi-2 https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020012215313/un-... edit: dang moved it, that's why I got confused https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22124049